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By mickt
#71121
i took the breath out of the oil tank a couple of weeks ago, as you know its a fairly large bore pipe that gos to near the bottom of the oil tank. i checked & it was all clear, someone suggested i drill a cross hole at the top of the pipe inside the tank above the oil level to let the crank pressure out with out pushing the oil out i dont know if thats good or a bad thing to do but it seemed to make no difference anyway. so the crank pressure gos into the oil tank then into the timing case but where dos it go from there ? i cant work that bit out as it looks like the only place it can escape is through the oil tank breather but then it has to push the oil out of the way to get out !
By vince
#71122
Hi, Are you saying the breather pipe reaches to the bottom of the oiltank? If so then there is something amiss. Vince
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By stinkwheel
#71126
It's a breather problem. Has to be. It's the same problem you get on a normal bullet if you get the breather hose trapped.



If it's pressurising the oil tank, that's all it can be. With a functioning breather hose, any pressure that builds up in the oil tank will vent to atmosphere.



I'm not directly familiar with the electra X but looking at our hosts parts diagrams, it's exactly the same setup as my late model 350 bullet came with


In use, the crankcase pressure vents into the oil tank through a small hole. That pressure then passes out through a stub in the top of the oil tank (that stub is vertical). It vents into a cylindrical catch-can via a duckbill breather inside the can. Any gas vents to air through the gauze lid of the can. Any liquid runs back down a second hose (which has an internal non-return valve) and into the timing chest through a horizontal stub.



Couple of things. As has been mentioned, this system is not very effective and is prone to becoming blocked by large quantities of emulsified oil (mayo). Another thing that would totally banjax the system is if you inadvertantly attached the return hose to the oil tank breather stub. It has a one-way valve in it.



My best suggestion would be to remove the entire breather system and give it a good blow through. It isn't wrong to simply remove the catch can setup altogether in favour of a more traditional duck-bill breather hose attached to the end of the oil tank breather stub and blank off the stub in the timing chest. This will make it all a bit more free-breathing. I made a little aluminium bracket to point the end of the breather hose at the chain just above the gearbox sprocket.



Hopefully, there should be a picture of the mayo in the standard catch can on mine below:


Image

This is still inadequate compared to the original sysatem of breathing directly from the crankcase. On mine, the breather hose would still clogg with mayonaise periodically resulting in a drop in power initially followed by oil seepage if it got totally blocked. Happily very simple to remove and blow through when set up like that.



An odd finding is that the mayonaise formation TOTALLY stopped when I fitted a Hitchcocks pressure relief valve on the scavenge side. Prior to that, I got regular mayo blockages, even when I was averaging 150 miles per day on a 3 month tour of Britain. Make of that what you will



I finally radically (and bravely)re-jigged the whole breather system by drilling a hole and fitting a stub into the crankcase itself, attaching a long bit of microbore sitting vertically behind the engine then routing it to the back of the bike via a diesel fuel line non-return valve. This breathes out around ten times the volume of gas if the oil tank is allowed to breathe freely through the stub (the oil filler caps on the older models are not sealed). It's my considered oppinion that the best way round this whole breather problem on catch-can equipped bikes would be to have the engine breathing normally out of the crankcase via a non-return valve (either mechanical or a simple duckbill), to have the hole between the crankcase and oil tank blocked off and to allow the oil tank to breathe either via the existing stub or through a small hole drilled in the filler cap.



My breather mod should appear below. Obviously, this is a radical step to take, the duckbill hose on the oil tank stub worked well enough, just not as well as it could do to my mind.



Image

Here's the youtube video of me measuring how much the engine was breathing:
https://youtu.be/ET0Rv4fh-Yc
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#71127
"Hi, Are you saying the breather pipe reaches to the bottom of the oiltank? If so then there is something amiss. Vince"



Just read this.



Yes, if the pipe is going to the bottom of the oil tank, your bike will have been turned into a highly efficient pneumatic oiler. If a 350 is breathing 1.8l/min of gas, I dread to think how much a 500 will be pushing out. If the end of the breather hose is submerged in oil, oil will come out instead of gas.



There should be a stub with a threaded end in the top of the oil tank. It's part number 16 on the following diagram. The hose attaches to the top of it.



http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/pa ... e_Fittings_
User avatar
By Adrian
#71128
It's sometimes referred to as a hose tail, here is the very item out of my old Electra-X engine:



Image



Part No. 500110 from our hosts if you need to order a new one, don't forget the copper washer part no. 144846.



As Vince and Stinkwheel pointed out, the breather hose sits ON TOP OF the oil tank, clipped to the union/hose tail, it's not supposed to be immersed in it.



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By mickt
#71129
this all makes a lot of sense im going to do some modifying on saturday ! how do i up load pics on here so i can show you whats on my bike ?
By Davie Hall
#71135
The Electra X I owned had a completely full catch tank . After I rebuilt the crank I binned all of the catch tank and hoses, I then fitted a hose from the top of the crankcase breather to just behind the number plate. After that was done I only filled the oil to the halfway mark in order to stop it covering the back of the bike in oily mist and mayo. After that the build up of mayo cleared almost completely and only left very light misting on the number plate and only needed the occasional wipe. It may be worth trying running a hose to bypass the catch tank to see what happens
User avatar
By Adrian
#71137
Davie,



you made the same mistake as me and haven't read Mick's previous posts properly - The catch tank on this bike has already been replaced by a hose to the back of the bike. The problem is the that the front end of the hose has been pushed down to the bottom of the oil tank instead of being correctly attached to the top of it.



Mick,



a common question, I suggest you sign up for Image Upload (www.imageupload.co.uk), a free photo-hosting web site and upload your pictures there. Now comes the tricky bit...



All photo hosting sites offer a confusing list of codes for sharing pictures, but be careful, the ONLY code which will actually DISPLAY your picture on THIS forum is the HTML code, NOT the BBCode or Image URL/Image Link codes. For some reason lots of hopefuls reading this (it comes up as a regular topic) don't seem to understand and still end up posting the wrong code, there seems to be some sort of collective blindness when it comes to following instructions (and yes, I got it wrong too at first). Image Upload offers more than one HTML option, probably the best to go for is the Linked medium + Image embed code.



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