Forum

[jacobia stig]

hey all, i have changed the kick pawl on my 500CC 1992 bullet yesterday after it drooooooped and gave up the goose on monday. i was quite new to the old 4 speed box taking it apart, but im ok with things like this. found the problem, ordered a new pawl, popped it in and then reassembled the gearbox with the guidance of a manual and some hindi pals on youtube.

kickstart works a treat, brand new!

but even after this, the 8th or 9th time and second day of disassembling and re-assembling the gearbox ( ive learnt ALOT ) im just getting a mixxed outcome, mostly just a mixture seemingly one gear (possibly 2nd) and no clicking into neutral ever. I rebuild the box in neutral so i can kickstart it, and i check everything clicking away as it should, up and down, but it just seams to be .... really wrong. ive followed manuals and video's to the T, i can see ive put it together exactly how they have done, but.. clearly im missing something.

anybody got super tips?
- should i rebuild it in a particular gear or setting?
- is there something im putting back which is notorious if not correct it cause these outcomes?

does anybody live close to liverpool who is a gearbox master?

3days is my limit, for something that should take 2 hours :p

this forum and the existence of our hosts is an amazing thing, thanks for all existing. any tips really appreciated.

anybody heard of any over the internet services with bullet masters where they watch you do the work and tell you what your doing wrong? could be a good earner for mechanics who are done with getting greasy or running a shop

[ric]

Before worrying about the gears, have you checked the new pawl is fully closing down avoiding all contact with the rachet teeth when the kickstarter has returned to the at rest position?


If not you'll sadly be fitting another pawl fairly soon.
With the engine running and in neutral pull the kickstarter down and you should be able to hear and feel the pawl bouncing off the ratchet teeth which must cease just before the kickstarter returns home. If you can't detect any change either the bike is too noisy and vibratory or it's because the pawl is permanently engaged. Continue until your satisfied and use a rag up the exhaust if need be to lower the noise floor.

[jacobia stig]

hi ric, yeah im pretty certain the pawl is all good and doing its job and not catching on any teeth, it works good and returns to position. it click click clicks past and is smooth then no sound before returning happily. ive heard this click click, say for example for couple of clearing 'winds with decomp in before kicking ive checked and flicked it open it closed a billion times using the kick arm when installing and checked it each of the 20 times i had to reopen the gearbox in the last 2days. im pretty certain the pawl is all sorted. i cant not worry about the gears, they were so smooth and sound before and now, nothing... it must be something obvious im doing wrong... i think i need to not look at it for an evening.

i really hoping theres a super obvious answer, i just cant see or work it out :/ thanks for your reply ric.

[scotty]

Hi theres an article in hosts tech notes on replacing kickstart pawl have you got the shifter fork located in gear cluster properly easy to pop out on assembly and no shift.articles around on site or net re assembling gearbox, not hard but easy to miss things.

[binary]

I had the same troubles with my old 4 speed gearbox. I never really got this gearbox to work how it was supposed to. After a total rebuild it still was rubbish. I really like riding my Bullet iron barrel 535 and so I
bought a second hand 5 speed gearbox from Hitchcocks fitted it and never looked back. My bike now changes gear like a Japanese motorcycle and the clutch works properly now as well. If you ever have the money
this conversion fixes all the old 4 speed gearbox and clutch problems instantly and brings a Royal Enfield into the modern era.
binary.

[vince]

Hi, do the gears select if you move the neutral lever by hand? If yes then you have possibly fitted the ratchet upside down. Bear in mind that the box needs to be turning to allow the dogs to align, just trying to change gear while stationary will give the symptoms you describe. Have you taken it for a spin. Lastly check you have the gear selector plunger assembly correctly engaged. Vince

[binary]

As I posted before the only way to eliminate all the problems with the old 4 speed gearbox and clutch is to eventually fit a 5 speed gearbox. You can waste a lot of money and time messing around with the 4 speed gearbox. There would be thousands of Royal Enfields parked up in sheds all across the world rusting away just because of the 4 speed gearbox. It was a gearbox copied by RE from a machine lathe and used in there motorcycles. This is where the "bellcrank" strait up and down gear change operation came from. Originally it was a hand gearchange from beside the fuel tank strait to the bellcrank gear changer. In this configuration it worked fairly well. When they went to foot gear change and having to have the gear change arm centralize after every change the problems really started, with the assortment of levers etc just to turn the bellcrank a small amount to change to each gear. Bad gearchange with a neutral between every gear. A lot of people just give up and sell there Royal Enfield to some one else. All the problems go away with the 5 speed box and may be a cheaper option than selling the Royal Enfield and then having to find the money to buy some other motorcycle. My Royal Enfield was perfect except for the gearbox and I actually saved money by buying and fitting a 5 speed gearbox. I have a good fast reliable motorcycle now that I use nearly every day and on our British Motorcycle Club runs when they have them. I was one that had my motorcycle up for sale because of the 4 speed gearbox, before I had the idea of fitting a 5 speed and now I would never sell my Royal Enfield.

[scotty]

I find most of the gearbox problems are with the clutch, mine improved greatly on fitting a bob newby racing clutch, it frees plates much more than the original one cost a bit but not as much as a 5 speed. I also have our hosts close ratio gear set fitted, box is filled with 00 grease indian bearings have beed swapped for jap ones much better quality, no problem pulling up at lights and getting neutral from 2nd and no crunch when engaging 1st gear does the 5 speed box require a different clutch and in top gear both boxes are 1 to 1 ratio.

[ric]

One problem associated with bad gear changing on the 4sp box is because more often than not the setting for the adjustment plate is bang on mid position when it should err towards the downchange. The reason being because its easier to push down on the leaver than pull it up.

[binary]

Hi Scotty. The same clutch plates, fibre and steel as are are used in the 4 speed gearbox are used in the 5 speed. The 5 speed has different splines on the shaft that the clutch is fitted on so a different clutch plate holder has to be used. If you want a 5 speed gearbox then the cheapest way that I have found is to buy one complete from Hitchcocks. You get a brand new right shift gearbox and all the extra stuff needed to set it up all in one package. Since putting mine on the clutch is very light and easy to operate and the gearbox changes as easily as any Japanese motorcycle. My motorcycle is now a pleasure to ride.
The final gear ratio in the 5 speed gearbox is still 1-1 in top gear. The stuff that you have bought to try to get your old 4 speed gearbox running would be half the cost of a new 5 speed. I did all the same things as you with my 4 speed and found that I had just been wasting my money. The clutch argument has very little to do with the changing of the 4 speed gearbox. I am using the same 4 speed clutch and it is acting perfectly now with the 5 speed gearbox set up. I adjusted it once when I fitted the new gearbox and have not looked at it since. I also changed over to this gearbox without taking the engine out of the frame. I took the gearbox to engine studs out and was able to slide the 4 speed out and slide the 5 speed in. The 5 speed is a bit smaller and so is easier to fit back in. Once it is in the five speed looks very much the same as the four speed gearbox as viewed from the right/exhaust side of the motorcycle. The only 5 speed gearboxes sold by the Indians are left change gearboxes so there is no money savings to be had from buying off the Indians. Hitchcocks is really the only reliable seller of a new 5 speed gearbox that is set up with the right foot shifter and all the extra parts needed to make it work properly.