Forum

[tippi]

Thank you very much for all the info. Regarding fixing on the side of the road: I know its a shame, but for a 30 miles ride I had no screw driver nor any other tools with me. And operation of the faulty points is about 1500 miles: can one assume this is the "normal" ops life time? Regards Peter

[jefrs]

There 'should' be a screwdriver in the standard RE tool roll, that or the rusty swiss army knife. At one time I carried a spare set of points on the bike, the logic being that if you have a spare you will never every need it. That and a spare spark plug, an adjustable spanner, pliers/cutters, some bulbs, half a roll of Lasovic, a bit of wire, a rag and some string. These days most of the kit can be replaced with a mobile phone.



How long do they last? When the heel wears down too far and/or the contact pads get too pitted to be worth messing with. Mileage varies. Murphy's Law (it will break) and Sod's Law (when it is most undesirable) apply.

[Craig]

Tippi...My Old 99 Home Mkt 350 was still running on its Original points when I laid her up thats after 15years and 40000 miles..So some do last well. I supose it depends which sub supplier made them,,,

[Bertie the Bullet]

The moral of the story, it don't matter what the points are made from, always carry a spare set and a condenser, and the correct tools to change them (a double ended screwdriver and a 7mm open ended spanner for the Condenser( mine is anyway).. regarding the remarks about poor servicing, I had a new Condenser give up after about 100 miles, so definitely not down to poor servicing!

[Thack]

jefrs wrote: "I actually like points/condenser-coil systems for their simplicity, ease of setting up and reliability."



I don't, because I don't believe they are as reliable as electronic ignition. I've been riding bikes with electronic ignition continuously since 1974 (a Ducati) and I've never had a single electronic ignition failure. I've been driving cars since 1975, and ditto.



The only failure of an electronic ignition I've ever come across is the after-market box retrofitted to my dad's car (an Austin Princess). I can't remember the make, I'm afraid. It was an inductive type (not capacitor discharge) and said "Integrated Circuit" on the front under the make.



Obviously I'm a sample size of one, but I'm firmly of the view that electronic ignitions are so extraordinarily reliable you can simply forget about them.



Also, electronic ignitions are EASY to set up compared with points/coil. You have to fart about with a contact file to remove the pip and crater, then fiddle-arse about loosening the clamp screw just the right amount to give a tight but sliding fit on the adjustable contact, and then mess with a feeler gauge to get the gap just right.



Then you've got the ridiculous palaver of setting the timing, which requires either a timing light, an angle gauge, or a TDC gauge plus some trigonometry to get the crankshaft to exactly the right static timing position. Once there you loosen the back plate and carefully turn it until the contacts JUST open (which you judge with a fag paper or a bulb and wire). Then you can rinse and repeat if you are curious about the maximum advance. If it doesn't agree with what's in the manual (which it never does) then you've got to decide on a suitable compromise.



Even then you've no idea whether the advance curve is as designed or the springs have got slack. Quite often when you stick a timing light on, the mark is bouncing around by +/- several degrees, so you don't really know for sure if the timing's right anyway.



Apart from regular fettling and occasional replacement of the points and condenser, you must occasionally check the centrifugal advance mechanism for wear, and for sticking. Basically it's a tedious ball-ache.



Most bike electronic ignitions systems for at least the past twenty years, maybe thirty, have no adjustable bits at all. Of those that did (mostly on cars) the only adjustment was a one-off to get the timing right. Loosen the bolt, shine the timing light at the mark, turn, tighten. Job done.



So you reckon "ease of setting up and reliability" are characteristics of points/condenser systems, compared with electronic ignition?



Get real!

[jefrs]

I had a mate lived in Western Australia where electronic ignition was banned because it couldn't be fixed at the side of the road. Dunno if that's still true.



The 1986 Volvo 245 was the fist car I had with breaker-less ignition i.e. Hall but no computer. It lasted a very, very long time, huge mileage. Otoh the Benz-AMG blew two firing packs, have you any idea how expensive they are, it had one firing pack per cylinder, and twelve plugs costing £24 each (they were the cheap ones). As I've got older I've got newer and newer cars mainly because old ones turn into money pits, the newer ones are reliable but if the electronics fails, as it has a few times, you can't fix easily them. I loved the insane Benz but the ecu packed up - BER. There again I've had more vehicles with points which I can change fix and adjust, even get the strobe out to fiddle with it.



I can set up points ignition, it's something I like doing. With electronic systems it's one-size fits all, fit and forget.

[Beezabryan]

"With electronic systems it's one-size fits all, fit and forget."
You got that right