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[Riggers]

Hi Mezappa. I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but just to say that these bikes are incredibly quirky. My 2000 Classic 500 has never been a good starter (from cold). Sometimes it can take around 30 kicks to get her to show signs of life. Yet on another day she will fire up first time. I too have tried everything I know - good spark, clean points, charged battery, clean carb and petrol, accurate timing (mine's contact breaker and coil). When it DOES fire up it quickly settles down to a lovely regular tick-over and from then on will start first time for the rest of the day. It's almost like the bike has a mind of its own and just has 'off days' when it doesn't feel like waking up! If I ever get to the bottom of it I'll let you know. But in the mean time all I can offer is empathy.......

[Les H]

A correction first: I said earlier "You can use a strobe to check the action of the rotor to see if the unit is advancing and retarding by shining the strobe at the distributor" I meant you can check the auto advance action of the electronics etc etc.....Taking the use of the strobe a little further, by shining the strobe at the magnet face plate, if the electronics are advancing too early or not at all, then the red dot will appear in its inspection hole either at tickover speed or much earlier up the rev range, it might also be seen to appear and then pass by the hole indicating over advancement either due to incorrect installation or a fault in the trigger electronics....The only real advantage of electronic ignition is the fit and forget....no points to adjust again....apart from worrying that it will stop working completely leaving you stranded somewhere. I have another make of bike that is fitted with the Boyer (Not by me) and it starts very reliably and easily, whether it would be the same with points ignition is unknown...suposedly the electronic trigger can create a higher voltage spark which might make a difference with starting, only direct real time comparisons would tell.

[TimG]

Hi Mazeppa

Whilst I have total respect for all the ignition-related fixes proposed here, I am a little bit suspicious that your problem seems to be confined to starting. If the ignition system was at fault, surely the running would be affected as well? I say this because I had very similar problems on my 500 Classic (2006), similarly upjetted, free flow exhaust, but original points ignition. I was driving myself ballistic trying to find out what it was - massive backfires, carb blown off the bike, etc., but once started, running perfectly at all engine speeds. Then I checked the throttle cable...it was regularly getting pulled out of alignment (due, I have to say, to my crap routing after replacing it). I found that I was trying to start, on choke, with a partially open throttle. Fatal on Classics with MikCarbs - they are ridiculously sensitive to throttle position when starting from cold. Once I had sorted this, I was back to first kick starting. So while I am sure you will probably need to look at your Boyer, just give a thought to the throttle cable operation first. Oh and by the way, I support the "points" camp in the "points vs electronic" ignition debate...simpler, cheaper and work just as well on low-tech singles...

Cheers

TimG

[Mazeppa]

Thank you all for your useful contributions. I am close now to reinstating the points. I fitted the Boyer because I wanted "fit and forget", but occasional inspection and adjusting/replacement of points does seem, in hindsight, to be a small price to pay for reliability.

I don't possess a strobe, and followed the Boyer instructions to the letter when fitting - paying particular attention to finding TDC.

I had a quick look last night with a view to re-fitting points - I couldn't immediately see where the black wire from the points should go - I seem to have moved the female connector that it used to fit in to during the Boyer fitment - I'm sure all will be revealed when I take the seat etc. off.

Thank you all again - I do appreciate it. If I make any progress I'll post it on this board.

Mazeppa.

[Les H]

Just to point out (No pun intended) you can assemble all the contact breaker parts (Points condensor wires nuts, insulators and washers including black wire) on the face plate removed off the bike and on a table top, then re-fit it after you have put back the auto advance unit. The black wire should go directly to the CB terminal on the coil.

[apparently lucky eddie]

The CB points system on these old style singles is pretty much fit and forget. I have n't even looked at mine, nor the plug, in over 5 years and the ol' girl runs and starts perfectly. Of course you can tinker and interfere and very likely bugger it all up, but I'm a firm believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Ditch the electronic gizmos and go back to basics.

[Les H]

Hello again Mazeppa. I've just read your first posts again. Whqat I might have missed is that you say the unit has worked perfectly for 18 months....I did not recall that the first time I read it. I note that you have done some voltage measurements, it seems most were taken at the battery? The Boyer only takes it's power in pulses so after you switch on there is very little current drawn by the unit and hence any voltage drops in the wiring will not register. You really need to measure the voltage that is driving the trigger unit right up at the unit. If your bike is neg earth then the power wire will be the red wire and the white goes to earth.(Or visa versa)...... Here's what to do before you ditch the unit (or send it to me after I buy it off you...LOL) Get 2 lengths of good quality wire and connect the red wire on the trigger unit directly to the positive and the white directly to the negative terminal on the battery (If neg earth or visa versa) make sure the connections are absolutley sound and try to start the bike again. I have a feeling it will be ok now. As said earlier, the current drawn is very low when not producing sparks so measuring voltages might not take account of any high resistances in the wiring connectors and of course the ignition switch. If all ok with the temporary wiring, trace the HR by substituting a high current device (headlight bulb) instead of the trigger unit and work through the connections with a digital voltmeter to find the bad connection.

[Les H]

One thing I forgot to say is that Boyer shows the unit to be run to earth on one side. I would not run the unit to earth, I would run a seperate wire directly back to the earth on the battery....Frame earth connections can cause HR problems and large voltage drops across them....Hope you haven't taken the Boyer all off yet?

[Les H]

One thing I forgot to say is that Boyer shows the unit to be run to earth on one side. I would not run the unit to earth, I would run a seperate wire directly back to the earth on the battery....Frame earth connections can cause HR problems and large voltage drops across them....Hope you haven't taken the Boyer all off yet?

[Mazeppa]

Les H, thank you for your advice. I have already reassembled the points on the back plate. However... on returning home from work tonight, I've given the Boyer a final chance. I've refitted the stator (which had been removed to insulate the solder as outlined above). It is possible to mount this circular plate with two mounting holes 180 degrees out. Does it make a difference? I assume that it makes no difference as 180 degrees here equates to 360 degrees at the crank, and on the wasted spark principle, no difference. Thus, I've refitted it 180 degrees out from where it was before, just to see. One priming kick. No choke. A kick in earnest with throttle completely closed and lo, it liveth ! (recently, I had moved away from closed throttle starting because when it backfires with a closed throttle slide, the carb blows off more easily). It ticked over slowly - I can count the firing stokes as it idles. After a while I stopped it, and a few minutes later started it again first kick. Problem solved? - I doubt it, but the Boyer has won a reprieve for the time being. Thanks everyone for your input - I won't be digging a large motorcycle shaped hole in the garden just yet.