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[binary]

Hi all does any body know if this is normal. The motorcycle started to make a noise today. I took the timing case off and found a loose cam spindle. This is an older Indian motor that still has the pressure relief valve at the front of the motor near the oil pipe to engine flange. This cam spindle looks like it was held in the engine case using lead. It has been put around the base of the spindle to hold it in place. Is this normal practice or is it another Indian bodge. I was able to pull the spindle out just with my fingers. The lead may be solder but it is lead.

[binary]

Hi again should have added that this spindle is an adjustable spindle that is why it is a strange shape. Both spindles are adjustable. I am not to worried about all this as I have been building up a year 2000 motor over the past few months and I will now finish it and put it into the motorcycle. I bought the year 2000 engine cases from Hitchcocks. They are brand new and I have been building the motor from brand new parts all bought from Hitchcocks. This is really the only way at the end of the day that you know what you are getting for sure.

[Adrian]

From reading the tale of your motor on another forum I'd say that the phrase "Indian bodge" is the correct assessment of the situation.



Oversize cam spindles are available, hopefully this wasn't one of them. If it was, you might still be able to have the portion of the spindle which is supposed to have the interference fit metal sprayed and re-ground to fit.



A.

[binary]

Hi Adrian,
Yes struck down again by the Indian technology. Thanks for the heads up on the oversize spindles but the slop in this spindle base would be measured in mm's
and the hole in the case is not even round. Perhaps the non adjustable spindles are bigger around where they fit into the case. This is why I was building a new motor as I thought some thing like this may happen with the old motor. Oh well onward and upward and at least I know what I will be doing for the next few weeks.
Binary

[Tim NZ]

It is not such an easy simple or straight forward fix if you want it done correctly? The original spindle centers in the case WONT be true. (100% fornicated is most likely) Plus you will definitely need Adjustable spindles if you want silent running for the timing chest?


Precision engineering is called for to repair the crank case or you will be forever haunted by rattly tappets and accelerated pinion teeth wear.





Your btm end originally had a double-row, made-up loose roller timing side main bearing assembly. I would advised to check WHAT bearing is now fitted..? I have come across several (fornicated) Indian back yard conversions to N205 bearing. Or worse, post 72 (Metric main bearings) bottom ends converted to the Built-up roller main. It is critically important to check that EVERY loose roller IS of the same diameter.


They are not always so...

[Tim NZ]

Forgot to mention; check the spindle bores in the timing cover too...


They are most likely tapered.

[binary]

Hi Tim and thank you for your reply. I have decided to take the engine out and install my new 2000 engine. I am just waiting on a delivery from Hitchcocks
with the last few parts that I need to finish it off and then I will put it in. When I first bought the motorcycle I did not pay much for it which was lucky for me. Yes the timing side case inside had been bored deeper and a double roller bearing with small rollers had been put in. This boring has left the area around the cam spindle seats weaker. I have checked the spindles that the Indians had put in and for some reason the spindles where they fit into the case are smaller than original. The hole is 16mm and the spindle is 15.03 hence the need to solder it in place. Any way I will have the new motor in in a couple of weeks and will be back on the road again. I will not put any more money into a totally defective old Indian bodged motor. The Indians just do not care and you never know what you are getting from them until it all goes bad.

[binary]

Hi again yes the spindle bores in the timing cover are flogged out where the spindle end goes in. There is no support for the spindle any more and this wearing just helped to make the spindle fail. If you look at the picture you will see that the lead was being extruded along the spindle and past the flange from the action of the cams pounding on this area as the spindle loosened. I have found 3 slivers of lead in the bottom of the timing cover. If it is extruding into the timing cover past that flange then some would have had to be going into the inside engine crank area as well.

[binary]

Mistake it is not a double row roller bearing on the timing shaft it is a wider double row ball bearing. That is why they had to bore the bearing hole deeper into the crank housing to be able to seat this wider bearing. The bearing has 5205 written on it. Instead of being 15mm wide it is 20mm wide with 2 rows of shallow seated ball bearings in it. It is not the roller bearing that is supposed to be in there. Just another Indian bodgey job.

[Alan R]

Hi Binary}----In this day and age it's truly unbelievable---isn't it ??

Just before I retired from the Mod they had decided to "Go Modern" and install a Quality Control Department whose staff were forever coming up with catchy little mantras such as}--- "The pain of poor quality stays with a product forever !!".........Seems they were right !!