By Rattlebattle
#90240
All spark ignition bikes have coils; it’s just what triggers the spark that varies. I’d swap back the spark plug; I tried an iridium in mine and it fouled. These are really meant for engines where you need a mining degree to remove the plugs and they can foul easily if there’s anything wrong with the ignition or fuelling. Also, you should here the pump prime, then stop.
By Rattlebattle
#90242
I wonder whether the plug cap is the problem, either because it’s not attached properly to the ht lead ( mine wasn’t, I had to cut a small length of ht lead and then properly connect the cap) or because it wasn’t properly connected and came off the plug terminal far enough to ground the ht current?
By Daiwiskers
#90243
I remember many years ago getting a knock on the door "my bike won't start can you look at it for me"
My first question was have you had a look to see what's wrong ?
I was told " no I rode it to the pub and it won't start"

So I had a look first check have we got a spark there was no need to look further someone had sabotaged the bike by jamming a cigarette end into the plug cap then replaced the cap on the plug .

You haven't upset someone have you?
User avatar
By Boxerman
#90245
Daiwiskers wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:26 pm
You haven't upset someone have you?
There could have been a reason though?
Many, many moons ago a girl turned up at a mate's birthday party on her scooter and drank far, far too much. She would not be convinced that she was not fit to ride her scooter home, so one of the lads removed the plug cap while she was arguing with us. After many minutes trying to start it, she relented and got a taxi home.

Oddly enough - it started first kick the next day :D

Frank
By montytheangry
#90252
I appreciate everyone's help. I really do. I knew/know very little about the Royal Enfield mechanically speaking. A brief story. I am a disabled Veteran here in the States, an aviation mechanic. I have essentially been retired (sidelined). Was a life long Gold Wing Rider, 250,000+ miles on one. I bought the Classic 500 in battle green to pay tribute to the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers). So the bike is supposed to be fun. Now I don't know about you chaps there in the UK or elsewhere in Europe, but here in the States dealers are few and far between and Royal Enfield's are generally viewed as a sideline type of motorcycle. I had to travel 8 hours just to purchase my bike. The closest dealer is 2 hours away. As you can see it is now my problem, my choice for deciding to buy a Royal Enfield. I am an old fashioned kind of guy. I hate modern electronics. All of these new safety features are just more things that can fail. I am almost convinced to use the Hitchcock 32 mm Mikuni carburetor conversion. I would absolutely love to remove the entire EFI/ECU unit and revert the bike to simplistic operation where a bit of knowledge and a few tools amount to a complete overhaul, not hundreds of dollars in electrical component costs.

Furthermore, specifically to those whom have been so kind as to reply. Here are the things that I have done. New battery just after purchase, the one from the dealer would not hold a charge. Did replace the factory spark plug and cap with the Iridium plug and cap from Hitchcock's, then reverted back to the factory stuff with no change in performance, still the same issue. I only run premium gasoline, not that it is necessary other than it is the only petrol in the area that does not have Ethanol in it. The fuel is crystal clear, I drained and checked the tank. There are no kinks in any fuel or breather lines. There are no loose connectors or plugs in the electrical system, checked those first. I already knew about the side stand issue and that sensor was removed before my first ride. I know for some of you that is a "sin", but I have been shot at and blown up by folks when I was deployed so if I die because I was forgetful and failed to put up my side stand, then it was just my time. I have seen flickering in the engine light, brief and very occasional, but nothing steady, certainly nothing prior to the sudden engine stoppage.

To some of your points, yes indeed the bike has a coil, my ignorance. Not sure if that is the problem. When the bike stops I have checked the spark and it was working, but no ignition. As stated before, when the engine stops I have full electrical power and all of the peripheral systems are functioning. The engine cut off switch turns on and off the fuel pump prime as it is supposed too. So the three best suggestions are as follows, bad coil as it has been brought up by several of you. Bad relay, it could be overheating due to a wiring issue. So both the coil and relay would re-engage after a cool down period. Lastly is the fuel pump itself. It could seem to be working when in reality it is not pumping the correct amount of fuel and then at some point just stops. Since I am still riding and therefore unable to determine if the pump is actually working.

Lastly, Mr. Diawiskers ( he asked me not to call him sir) suggested that an errant, disheveled female could be a problem. Actually he said "someone". Boy, don't I wish. Not really, got rid of the pesky wifey a year ago and it has been bachelor bliss ever since!

So now I am almost certain that I want to convert to carburetor. Do any of you know how I can go about eliminating the ECU altogether? I realize that it would mean butchering the wiring harness or just flatly replacing it. I own the bike outright so it is mine to do with as I please. Not sure having a factory warranty helps me much given my circumstance.

Very graciously,
Tony
By Daiwiskers
#90255
If you're in the states have you been on the

Unofficial ROYAL ENFIELD community forum

I am sure someone on there will be able to help and be far closer to you than your dealer

But please keep in touch as your fix could help people on here

Respect Dai
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#90256
I still think airlocking/interrupted fuel flow has to be on the list. Your symptoms of cutting out then restarting after a delay are classic of what you get with a blocked tank breather. Especially if it's repeatable.

I'd expect more stuttering/backfiring/intermittant running with a primary electrical fault.
Now I'm no expert at injectors, no real experience of them but I believe if you can get at the back of them when this fault is occurring, you ought to be able to see them spraying when the engine is turned over?

When it comes down to it, the basics of the engine running are the same as any engine, fuel, air, spark. One of them is missing, once you know which, you're on the way to sorting out the problem.

Are the newer ones spohisticated enough to have an OBD system? Maybe worth a fault code read?
By Rattlebattle
#90261
Unfortunately I don’t have a Euro IV spec bike. The EFI was upgraded on this and is, I believe, more sophisticated though harder to tune than the earlier version on my 2015. The way the ignition works on mine is that once per revolution the crank position sensor sends a signal to the ecu as the rotor on the generator passes it. It is therefore a wasted spark system firing twice per 4 strokes, the wasted spark firing harmlessly at the end of the exhaust stroke. I don’t believe there is much scope for replacing the ignition side, which can easily be tested anyway.
The fuel pump is actually made by Keihin and as such is a quality bit of kit. These don’t generally give many problems but if they do there are cheaper replacements available in the States because replacements are ludicrously expensive- though yours is under warranty. If you disconnect the injector and crank the motor without starting it, you should see it spray. I don’t have the data for how much it should spray in a specified time but it is available. On mine you can get stored fault codes by earthing the little wire by the ecu and turning on the ignition but not starting it. You get a series of long and short flashes on the engine management light and by noting these you can look up what the codes mean in the workshop manual or online. It’s possible that the latest version has a standard OBD2 port ( I recall that these were supposed to be mandatory at some point to stop manufacturers having their own proprietary ones and making code reading etc unnecessarily expensive. Triumphs have had them for ages but I don’t know about REs latest offerings).
I put a carb on my 2015; it makes it as near as possible to a traditional setup and is equivalent to having an old bike with an aftermarket electronic ignition fitted. I’ve had none of the irritating glitches I used to get with the efi and I now know that the ECU is only dealing with ignition, which it does perfectly well with a decent plug and plug cap. I know Hitchcock’s do a kit for the latest version but in the States there are other options. If I were you I’d join the classic motor works forum. TBH there is a lot more knowledge of the EFI bikes on that forum than here, which is better for the older iron barrel bikes and all the Redditch ones.
I know many owners in the States do their own servicing anyway because of the huge distances to dealers. I would too, but be very careful in torquing the oil drain plugs- a lot have been stripped, some by dealers. Hope this helps.

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