Forum

[Michael]

Hi Jack... yes, the fuel pump is operated through one of the relays. Not sure if it is a direct connection (Thack will know as he has made up a good wiring diagram in the past) but direct or otherwise, a sticky/blown relay could result in the fuel pump not working.




If the neutral light is going on, but not the MIL and the fuel pump is not priming then that is an important bit of data. It means the problem lies in the ECU circuit primarily. Check relays and fuses as number 1 problem... but also check for some wiring continuity from your ignition barrel to both sides of the relevant fuse (and check for 12V too).




Thack, when you say the 'emergency stop switch' do you mean the rollover sensor under the seat on the right of the ECU? Also, on my own Electra EFI the sidestand switch isolated the entire EFI circuit (i.e. it basically switched the fuel pump off and removed the signal to the ECU from the battery). I ditched the electric start years ago, but I didn't think my bike cranked with the stand down either? Maybe a change has happened... or maybe my memory is gone. Either way, ditch the switch - when it fails you will be getting muddy and oily and greasy in the middle of nowhere in the rain...

[Michael]

Jack, just thinking... is your battery good? Anything below 12V will cause you issues in using the leccy start... it might fire from time to time, but not always. Anything below 11.5V and there might not be enough juice to switch the relays. I had a wiring fault in my EFI last year which resulted in a good battery supplying only around 11.5 volts to the main ECU circuit relays... they sometimes switched, sometimes didn't.

[Jack the Lad]

Thanks Michael. The battery is pretty new and I've not had a problem starting the bike before, so I guess it is OK. The lights are bright and it started fine just before it stopped. I'm at work now (had to drive in by car and sit in traffic queues with the sun shining ) but will have a look at the bike this evening. Just wondering - assuming the relay connections and fuses are all sound and there is a current everywhere there should be, how do I test the relays to find out which one, if any, is faulty. I assume that in a dealers they swap bits out until it works again - but as I don't have spares lying around is it safe just to temporarily bypass a relay switch with a bit of wire to see if the circuit is completed. As the relays have more than two connectors, will it be obvious which ones I will have to bridge to bypass the relay? I don't want to make a problem worse by damaging a perfectly good component with hamfisted experimenting!

[Michael]

Jack... basically, yes you can bridge over a relay connection to test if the relay works or not but use thick wire and a couple of spade connectors! And, I would not recommend that you do any more than testing to see if things runs etc... I think the main power relay under the seat above the positive battery terminal is 4 pinned, the others might be 5 pinned from memory (I actually have two spare in my bag here but can't recall if they are off my EFI). A wee relay bridge wire is a great 'get me home/somewhere safe' device to carry in your tool box... However, you should hear the relay click when power goes on - switch on ignition (or get a mate to) and listen for the click from the underseat relay, and the two in the side pod.




If you google search for 'relay pins' or 'relay pin numbers' then you will get an explanation of what to bridge. I *think* normally you would bridge pins 30 and 87.

[Thack]

Michael writes:

"Thack, when you say the 'emergency stop switch' do you mean the rollover sensor under the seat on the right of the ECU?"



Sorry, mate, that was my fault for using the wrong term. I mean the big red switch on the right handlebar, which I was always taught to use as an emergency stop if I drop the bike.



"Also, on my own Electra EFI the sidestand switch isolated the entire EFI circuit (i.e. it basically switched the fuel pump off and removed the signal to the ECU from the battery). I ditched the electric start years ago, but I didn't think my bike cranked with the stand down either?"



Well, I can report on my own 2014 bike, which seems to work the same way as the 2011 bike Scalyback provided the wiring diagram for. The sidestand, when down, cuts off the feed to the ECU and the fuel pump. The lights still work, as does the starter motor.



It's a stupid system - it ought to work like every Japanese bike: you can start and run the engine on the sidestand, but it cuts out if you select a gear. One fine day I'll see how feasible it is to modify the circuit on ours to do the same thing.

[Thack]

Jack writes: "The engine doesn't normally turn over with the side stand down...."



Are you absolutely sure? I bet it will, unless the wiring has been modified. My 2002 ES, my 2006 Electra X, and my 2014 B5 all allowed the engine to crank but not start when the sidestand was down.



It was a bit of a larf, actually. Not five minutes after the dealer had explained this to me, he made just the same mistake himself on the demonstrator: the engine was cranking but not firing. It took him several seconds to realise he'd left the sidestand down.

[papasmurf]

Thack my 2006 Electra X (ish) will not turn over on the starter unless the side stand is up and the clutch pulled in.
However it was assembled in Britain not India and has proper spade fuses.

[Mog]

I have just checked my 2011 Clubman and with the side stand down the fuel pump doesn't work and the starter motor does not work either.

[Thack]

Mog writes: "I have just checked my 2011 Clubman and with the side stand down the fuel pump doesn't work and the starter motor does not work either."



When I read that I wondered if I might be going mad. So, I've just been downstairs to try it.



Put the bike in neutral, put the sidestand down, turned on the ignition, pressed the starter button.



And yes, the bike definitely does crank, but definitely doesn't fire.



So now we've got ostensibly similar bikes that behave differently. Could this be a UK/US thing, by any chance? I'm in the UK. Are you, Mog? Does anyone have any other ideas?



Interestingly, if you examine Scaly's wiring diagram, or my derived circuit diagrams, they show clearly that the bike *must* crank but not fire when the sidestand is down. This proves that Mog's bike is somehow wired differently from Scaly's diagram.



It would all be so much easier if the Indians would just release up to date wiring diagrams for their bikes.

[Thack]

Papasmurf writes: "Thack my 2006 Electra X (ish) will not turn over on the starter unless the side stand is up and the clutch pulled in. However it was assembled in Britain not India and has proper spade fuses."



Yo, Papa! Yes, I recall we've discussed this before, and my view is that yours must have a custom wiring loom, presumably made here in the UK. Perhaps even a one-off. And how lucky you are: it's done properly! (Although the need to pull in the clutch is something only some bikes in the UK have - including Triumph.)