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By Adrian
#85937
The adjuster just screws into the outer cover, M8 thread, it points the cable out in roughly the 10 o'clock direction before it loops around under the tank. Some of the clutch cables have 90° ferrules at the gearbox end to avoid having too long a run. For some reason the original Electra-X had a longer clutch cable run than the Sixty-5.

One of the irritations I find is that with every single 5 speed cable I have ever tried is that the inner cable is always too long and takes up pretty much most of the adjustment at the clutch lever and the gearbox end adjusters while the cable is still new (I should probably learn how to make my own clutch cables). To keep the 5 speed box sweet the cable needs to be kept properly adjusted. On Not A Fury I added a spacer made of short section of M8 threaded bolt and M8 stainless extended nut together with a locknut (all slotted for the inner cable) at the handlebar lever end so that the adjusters still actually have a decent amount of adjustment in them. As bodges go it's fairly neat, though it could always be fitted at the gearbox end with a suitable shroud.
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(The clutch lever assembly with decomp lever was meant for some pit bike from far Cathay but is just fine here.)

Also when you have the end cover off you can see if it has the earlier or later lifting mechanism for the clutch. Early ones just had a lever with a forked end where the cable end sits, which with constant flexing can eat cables fairly regularly. The later type has the cable slotting into a hinged link to give the cable end an easier time. To change the cable at the gearbox end, the whole cover doesn't need to come off, just undo the plug with the 18mm or ⅜W hex and get in there with a pair of long-nosed pliers.

If getting the end cover off doesn't destroy the original gasket, that's good. Newer pattern gaskets are made of thinner material, you might have to use two to stop the kickstart binding when you tighten the cover screws up.

Hope this helps.

A.
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By Wheaters
#85938
Adrian, it's all very useful info, thanks for your prompt reply. A couple of other questions if you don't mind:

Are the British made cables also too long?

Do you have any further info about possible differences between earlier and later 5 speed boxes? Strange that the main shaft thread diameter and clutch nut were altered from M12 to M14.

I will take the cover off tomorrow and have a look inside.
I can make a thick gasket if need be - I keep a selection of gasket material and it was a skill I was taught many years ago.

Having perused the H's catalogue, I'm unsure if my 4 speed kickstart lever will fit. I bought a brand new one some time ago and it would be nice if that fits, if not I might buy the type that folds at the bottom. Those are advertised to fit both 4 and 5 speed so I wonder if the splines/shaft diameter are the same.

I also need to buy a suitable gear change lever.
User avatar
By Wheaters
#85940
Having re-discovered where my spare kickstart lever was hidden, I can confirm that it fits.
User avatar
By Wheaters
#85942
It does have the older type of clutch release fork. I can't justify buying Mr. H's later release kit though. I'm getting to the stage where I soon might need to hide receipts from a certain lady.... who has far better things for me to spend money on :)
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By mauri
#85943
Wheaters wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:50 pm
Having checked photos of the clutch cable I think it just screws into the threaded hole. One will go on the shopping list. I've read there might be problems with breakages so I'll buy a British made one.
breakages is not due to the cable itself, rather that the early models had the cable outlet in the cover upward but in line with the cover.

the later covers have the cable outlet upwards and inwards so there is less change to hit it with your foot when using the kickstart.
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By Adrian
#85949
The nice shiny polished cover suggests an export model gearbox, our hosts' ready-made right-foot conversion kit has one with the dreaded Indian powder coating. As I said, just about every cable I have tried needed a shorter inner. Most of them have still been usable, but having almost all of the adjustment used up from day 1 seems all wrong to me.

According to Henry Price who supplied me with a 5-speed box, the M12 threaded end of the main shaft could snap off when the clutch centre retaining nut was being (over-) tightened, so the factory quietly beefed it up to M14 for later gearboxes. In fact the snapped M12 end had previously happened with the box he sold me, now fully rebuilt with the later main shaft, of course. This never happened with my 2005 Electra-X (other things did), but as I'm not a fan of torque wrenches, my old Electra's gearbox is still OK for use in what will be my wife's project bike. (She who doesn't need to be kept in the dark about buying bike bits!)

Some 5 speed boxes have 5mm diameter clutch push rods, some have ¼", can't remember which are early and which are later, though I think our hosts have this on-line somewhere.

Mauri also mentioned the changed angle of entry of the clutch cable on later outer covers, apart from that I can't think of any more differences.

A.
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#85950
Relevant to the topic in general. I found this MOD film entitled "Motorcycle Cross-Country Technique (1942)" on youtube the other day. It was interesting watching and more based around "getting you and your bike there and in one piece than finesse or keeping your feet up.

https://youtu.be/rXGyyM76pfU

Among other things, it makes a case for rigid footpegs as a means of safely stopping on a steep, loose slope.
User avatar
By Wheaters
#85951
mauri wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:26 am
Wheaters wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:50 pm
Having checked photos of the clutch cable I think it just screws into the threaded hole. One will go on the shopping list. I've read there might be problems with breakages so I'll buy a British made one.
breakages is not due to the cable itself, rather that the early models had the cable outlet in the cover upward but in line with the cover.

the later covers have the cable outlet upwards and inwards so there is less change to hit it with your foot when using the kickstart.
Thanks, Mauri, that makes sense. If I can I'll fit a bracket to ensure the cable doesn't flap out further than necessary.
User avatar
By Wheaters
#85952
Adrian wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:12 pm
The nice shiny polished cover suggests an export model gearbox, our hosts' ready-made right-foot conversion kit has one with the dreaded Indian powder coating. As I said, just about every cable I have tried needed a shorter inner. Most of them have still been usable, but having almost all of the adjustment used up from day 1 seems all wrong to me.

According to Henry Price who supplied me with a 5-speed box, the M12 threaded end of the main shaft could snap off when the clutch centre retaining nut was being (over-) tightened, so the factory quietly beefed it up to M14 for later gearboxes. In fact the snapped M12 end had previously happened with the box he sold me, now fully rebuilt with the later main shaft, of course. This never happened with my 2005 Electra-X (other things did), but as I'm not a fan of torque wrenches, my old Electra's gearbox is still OK for use in what will be my wife's project bike. (She who doesn't need to be kept in the dark about buying bike bits!)

Some 5 speed boxes have 5mm diameter clutch push rods, some have ¼", can't remember which are early and which are later, though I think our hosts have this on-line somewhere. Mauri also mentioned the changed angle of entry of the clutch cable on later outer covers, apart from that I can't think of any more differences. A.
Thanks again. Sounds like I need to take care with assembly torques then. Perhaps a few ft. lbs less with blue thread locking liquid is the way to go. Presumably, once carefully bolted up, the splines take all the strain anyway so there's no advantage to "gorilla tactics" on the torque wrench.

The pushrod assembly on mine is 5mm, the inner diameter of the mainshaft is about 5.25mm and the shank of a 5.5mm drill bit won't go in. There appears to be one half still in there, the shortfall in length is about 30mm so presumably I need a ball bearing and the other half of the shaft.

Also the clutch hub to adapt the existing one. I'm fairly sure (from when I cleaned out the clutch and fitted stronger springs a short while ago) that the clutch has five friction plates. I'm hoping that's all that's needed.

I've got a rear chaincase oil seal plate/adapter and a right handed gear lever on order.

For now I'm going to keep the standard 18 tooth gearbox sprocket. With the larger rear sprocket now fitted the overall ratio at the back wheel will still be "shorter" at 2.56 than the 350 standard 2.375.
User avatar
By Wheaters
#85954
Having checked the old clutch release pad from my existing 4 speed box (I recently replaced the standard part for the roller release type) I think that's possibly all I need, plus a steel ball, rather than a push rod. The end of the push rod already in the main shaft sits 35mm inboard of the clutch end.

Unfortunately so far I've been unable to find a diagram to confirm this.

Unfortunately the stem of the old 4 speed one is larger in diameter so there's no chance fitting that.
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