Forum

[Geoff B in Kent]

If you receive the newsletter from Watsonian-Squire you'll have seen that this ride takes place this weekend. Mike Ellis lost his life when a reversing lorry crushed him and his motorcycle and the fund raises money to improve emergency aid provision in rural areas. Having been very fortunate to be only lightly injured in a similar accident, this cause is rather close to my heart. Details of the ride, the fund and the Mike Ellis Memorial Fund Virgin Giving site can be found by googling. There is also a wider campaign to reduce the hazards posed by commercial vehicles reversing blindly at rearview.org. Do take a look at that site if nothing else. Well worth being aware of the dangers. Ride safely. Geoff

[Scalyback]

Hope you don't mind if I just add the links. The site is rearview.org.uk



and Mike Ellis Memorial Fund Website where you can get info on Sunday's ride.

[Geoff B in Kent]

Good of you ScB, thanks. Note that the ride, with lots of other goings on, is tomorrow Sat 5th.

[Scalyback]

Saturday the 5th?



Oops! I should read things more carefully!

[Beezabryan]

Without wishing to detract from the sad occurrence a salutory warning may be appropriate to us all when following behind large goods vehicles and public service vehicles.
In the latter years of my trucking days I had a sign on the back that said in big lettering - If you cannot see my mirror I cannot see you.
Please ride safe folks

[Geoff B in Kent]

Beezabryan - a valid point of course and I'm much more aware of that now. It's a very necessary part of defensive riding. But it only really works when both vehicles are moving forwards doesn't it? When a commercial vehicle suddenly reverses in the middle of the road isn't the onus then on the driver to ensure that he can do it safely? In my case I had been following the van on a narrow country road for over a mile. Speeds were low and I knew the road and that if he met another vehicle he would need to stop. So I was prepared for him to stop when he did and took a position about 20 feet behind him just inside the centreline of the road and about 2 feet inside his offside. To have been further out would have put me in a position vulnerable to oncoming traffic. I have thought a lot about this and I cannot see how I could have done more to have avoided the accident. In my case the driver had no reversing aid (and no "if you can't see my mirrors" sign on the back of the van) and admitted that he couldn't see me. Neither did he hear my hooting. Nor did he ask his mate to act as banksman. Nor did he pull over to the side of the road before reversing. While I feel very cross that he assumed "I see nothing = nothing there" I don't feel vindictive. The rearview.org campaign is to give van and truck drivers more rear vision to avoid accidents. The van driver who hit me didn't feel good. I can't imagine how the truck driver who killed Mike Ellis felt. Beezabryan I am eager to learn and would really value your opinion as a commercial vehicle driver as to whether I could have done anything differently to avoid my accident. Meanwhile all, yes keep those mirrors in view. An essential defence.

[Geoff B in Kent]

I don't want to bang on about this too long, but something else I've done since my accident is to find a van of a similar size and just walk about around and behind it trying to keep its mirrors in view. Again, what Beezabryan points out is very sound advice and my experiment proved to me that it's actually extremely easy, in normal everyday sensible driving, to get into commercial vehicles' blind spots. The police report on Mike Ellis's death said that to have been certain of being seen in his mirrors by the driver of the 30ft lorry Mike would have had to have been at least 48m (150+feet) behind. Pace out 48m. It's a long way. The coroner also said that it is the responsibility of the person behind to ensure that they are visible. I'm not interested in arguing with a coroner, and you certainly can't argue with umpteen tons of truck or van reversing blind at you. I said I couldn't think of anything else I could have done. In fact, with hindsight (haha) there were 2 possibilities: I could have stopped over the centreline of the road and in sight of his offside mirror. At least approaching traffic would have seen me. Or I could have followed at a much much greater distance than any normal following distance (2 second rule etc). Try a few things out next time you're behind a large vehicle. Try different following positions. It's certainly given me a lot of food for thought and I welcome advice and opinions. I've been riding bikes for 45 years+ and have previously been very lucky not to have had a collision. I shall be booking a Bikesafe session.

[Adam]

It is possible, dare I say probable, that in each of the incidents above the reversing driver was totally unaware of the motorcyclist because they had not looked in their mirrors for a considerable distance or time, maybe not since turning into or onto the road on which the incidents occurred. Had they been aware of the motorcycle there is a chance that they would have asked themselves where was it before reversing.For a good few decades now learner drivers have been taught to check mirrors and speed frequently when making progress, whenever you are sure that there are no hazards ahead about to jump out in front of you, check mirrors and speed. Sadly too many drivers think that you can chuck the rule book out the window once you have passed your practical test.I am often riding on roads where it’s too narrow to safely overtake the van or truck ahead of me and in these circumstances not only do I maintain a considerable distance between us but on straight sections where I can see the road ahead to be clear I will move to the offside of the road and weave left and right in the hope that the moving light in the mirror will alert the van/truck driver’s attention to me. There is then at least half a chance that before reversing the driver will ask himself “where’s that f-ing twat on the motorbike?”.Be careful out there. Adam

[Frank]

The fitting of reversing cameras should be mandatory on such vehicles. They should be supplied as standard on new vehicles and could be fitted at modest cost to older ones. Some already have them.

[Geoff B in Kent]

Staying further back and weaving about a bit is certainly a strategy I'll be exploring Adam. A bit of main beam in daylight rather than dipped in those circs might be worth trying too. My van driver was certainly more concerned with finding his destination than looking in his mirrors. Mandatory reversing technology is certainly one of the aims of rearview.org Frank. As you say it's available and cheap.