Forum

[Andy C]

Some of us here have Bullets with the 612 conversions, and our logbooks might still list the bike as a 500cc Bullet rather than a 612cc Bullet.

When we insure these bikes do we just insure it as a 500cc Bullet as per the description in the log book, or do we declare that it has been converted to 612cc - afteral no one is going to know unless they measure bore and stroke.

Similarly, if a bike has had it's engine replaced, as long as the engine No in the log book is correct - even if it is a different engine, for example larger capacity, do you just insure it as per what the log book says it is?

So you could have a 350 frame with a 500 engine, logbook might still say it is a 350.

Hypothetical questions of course - seems to be varying views on this.

[papasmurf]

Undeclared engine modifications nullify your insurance.

[windmill john]

Plus 1 for papasmurf’s reply.

You really don’t want to test something that could end up with you losing your house....

[stinkwheel]

My main issue is that with the 612 conversion, the crank alone is worth more than book value on a standard 500 bullet. So I have mine on an agreed value policy with all modifications declared and salvage retention rights.

Legalities aside, depends why you want insurance. If I had no intention of ever claiming and just wanted insurance to keep me road legal, I'm afraid I'd insure it as a bog-standard bike with whoever was cheapest. If I wanted insurance to cover my investment in time and money, I'd go for a specialist policy.

The "invalidating policy" is a tricksy one. Undeclared modifications would certainly cause issues on any potential payout if they came to light and are a valid reason for a company to cancell your policy. However, from the point of view of the road traffic act, if you have had a certificate of motor insurance issued which has not been cancelled by the issuer with a notice period, you are insured for the purposes of road traffic act minimum cover. This has been proven in case law repeatedly, even in cases where the driver had lied about having a licence, never mind the composition of his vehicle. There is a statuatory instruction saying an insurance company can NOT use incorrect engine capacity as a reason to retrospectively refuse third party insurance payouts.

You could certainly be held to be in breach of contract and the insurance company could persue you for the cost of a payout in the civil courts but from a legal perspective, the certificate of motor insurance is the thing and the whole of the thing. Even the police don't fully understand this and use insurance as a weapon to harrass young lads in modified cars. I really don't think it's valid for them to do so.

Chapter and verse (warning, clear as mud):
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/151

[papasmurf]

Plus 1 for papasmurf’s reply.

You really don’t want to test something that could end up with you losing your house....

I know someone who did lose their house because of undeclared engine modification when they had a bad accident and got sued.

[Adrian]

I'd rather have to pay a bigger premium for declared modifications than have it all go horribly wrong as above.

A.

[Adrian]

The question of insurance comes up here now and again, but we really need to know who are the best insurers are for MODIFIED classics and neo-classics. Getting mine set up with Carole Nash needed quite lengthy phone-calls.

Perhaps our hosts could look into a deal with someone? If you ride an un-modified Indian Bullet or a Redditch bike rsetored to standard it's all straightforward enough, but many of us here will have been spending time money and effort making them non-standard!

A.

[windmill john]

This isn’t an isolated incident, but I’m sure you can search for it..

A chap sold his bike on a Saturday and planned to let his insurer know on Monday.
His bike was involved in an accident over the weekend. I can’t recall how the original owner was prosecuted, but at the point I heard about it, he had lost his house Due to the total cost of claim and it was ongoing.

It scared me enough to make sure I cancelled my insurance as the bike left my property.

[Andy C]

Thanks for the input - I agree arranging insurance for a non standard machine is very lengthy.

The bottom line is that honesty really is the best policy.

Regards

[McMurdo]

A couple of other "watch outs" regarding modified insurance -

Make sure you check thoroughly each year that the mods are still recorded. Twice I have received my renewal for a modded bike and when I phoned and checked they had forgotten to add the modifications to the new policy. No idea where you would stand on that legally but if you cant see the mods stated on your renewal then always check.

Secondly for those with insurance that states the bike is garaged overnight - check really carefully on the garage clause as I've seen some horrendous get-outs for the insurers on these. Last year I was about to pull the trigger on a policy when I thought I'd check the fine print. The garage clause said that if the bike got stolen from the driveway (ie not garaged) after 11pm then you had no insurance - not a reduced insurance - no insurance - you'd lost the lot. So if you come home late and somebody jumps you in the driveway then you're left with nothing! Needless to say I went elsewhere but this type of clause seems to be getting more prevalent!!

It's getting to be a challenge to find fair insurance!

Stuart