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User avatar
By windmill john
#90571
No idea what to make the title! But hoping for suggestions if you’re happy to; non RE

Okay, the picture is of part of the starter clutch in an old Honda. The short version is, no, new rollers do not stop the starter screeching.

Now a lot of people remove the starter and make bike kickstart only.

Right, I want to fix this, although I am close to giving up.

Any ideas how I, or an engineer can add metal to the face where the red mark is? It would need to be on the same faces on the other two cut-outs and less than a millimetre.

This is hardened. Basically, the rollers have worn a slight hollow in the face and as far as I can work out, this is what is causing the starter to slip and scream.

Open to any serious or Barney Bodgit suggestions. Any help appreciated and understand if you want to ignore the posting

If you want to see what the complete unitit looks like, this might give you an idea, not my video:

https://youtu.be/wdkFGCrlVlg

Thank guys.


Picture not uploading, so popped it as the last picture here:

http://windmilljohn.jalbum.net/Sundance/

John
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#90574
Is the size critical or is it just the mis-shape that's causing the problem? Maybe just a case of Milling/filing the face back to flat and true? Will that extra mm cause a problem?
User avatar
By windmill john
#90575
Adding a mill may cause an issue and I am hoping that if the slight indent was not there, the issue would be resolved....... he hopes.

So yes, milling and filing could work. I just wonder who could do this work. Due to the recess, it looks like any additional metal would have to be added manually. Actually I’m out of my depth even thinking about it. I’ve arc welded a couple of things, this needs Picasso.
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#90576
I'm just thinking remove just enough material so the dent is gone and you have a flat face again. Not necessarily adding more metal. Make sure you have a strong enough spring in the plunger. Then give it a try? You won't be in a worse position in any case.

If the resulting extra clearance is causing an issue, it would probably be better to use marginally larger diameter rollers than to try welding onto a hardened surface and machining back. Those would be comparatively easy to fabricate on a lathe.
User avatar
By windmill john
#90579
No, removing material would make the rollers too far out and make the matters worse.
Fatter rollers, when they disengage, may still contact the central drive, as clearance when they roll back is reduced.

But.... saying that, maybe a little material could be removed from their other position would give room...... as long as the springs still operates on them.

Actually, in that case I could just take the rollers to an engineer and say give me bigger; slightly more accurate than just saying that of course.

Thanks Stinkwheel

John
User avatar
By windmill john
#90581
Just looked at some ‘loose steel roller’ providers and could be onto something.

Thanks again Stinkwheel, I wasn’t thinking of bigger rollers. But then again, that’s typical me!


John
By Daiwiskers
#90583
How about metal spraying then mechine flat
The way they build up undersize crankshafts

I would think that if it stands up to crankshaft it would work for this job

Find a good crank builder and ask

Otherwise go with Stinkwheel's suggestion
User avatar
By stinkwheel
#90586
Even if you can't get off the shelf rollers, there are companies who will grind steel bar to any diameter you want. You could probably make them yourself with a hacksaw and file once you have the correct OD.

Admittedly picking the correct steel and hardening it after may be less of a DIY job, but it's possible. I'm not an expert but I believe EN36 may well be appropriate (various size rod available on ebay) is oil hardenable and can be tempered in a deep fat frier...
User avatar
By windmill john
#90590
Thanks again chaps. I’ve just ordered some rollers that are 11mm long. My old rollers are 11.6mm. I’m hoping that they don’t cant too much. I hoping as they are in place only when starter operated, this .6 of a mill is acceptable..........

Again, old rollers 10mm diameter, new ones, 11mm. I’ll bench test and if necessary look at removing a tad of metal from their home (engine running) position.

Right, back to Enfield discussions :D


John
User avatar
By windmill john
#90649
Success!
There might be a part two depending what happens with the bike.

As the starter was screaming, I knew the wear was going to be the tiniest fraction of an inch, going from 10mm to 11mm was a jump.
But before I looked at removing metal from the starter gear, I was able to effect a great starter with one 11mm roller and two Honda (10mm) rollers.
One may argue that this might put a little strain on the roller gear, however as the roller gear is worn anyway, nothing is lost and it starts very well and of course only operates when the starter is pressed. :|

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