Forum

[Valsp]

You must remember that India operates a dual pricing system for Indian nationals and foreigners so if you visit India on an internal flight you will find all the tourists in economy class and the locals in business class paying far less than the tourists in economy. This also applies to hotels, sightseeing and virtually everything else. There is a huge difference between INR and foreigner rates even in 5 star hotels - though to be fair to the TAJ Hotel group they have stopped this and charge one rate for all. Any thought that Enfield would charge the same price as they do at home just adding on the additional export costs is wishful thinking

[Riggers]

We can go on forever about the price of this bike vs the price of that bike, but when all is done and dusted the market is governed by the simple rules of supply and demand. Roughly if the price is right and the product is available, people will buy them. Make the price cheaper and people will buy more; up the price and people buy less. If Enfields are struggling to sell their bikes (in the UK) then the price is too much for what you get – simples! Of course how you value ‘what you get’ is a matter of personal choice, which is why a genuine Gold Star could set you back 20 grand or more. And also why I was happy to pay £2,800 for a 1960 Classic (copy) in 2000 but not £4,500 (or whatever it is) now for a Double Swirl, Twin Cranked, Overhead Geared Sprindle Bullet Train . You pays your money and takes your choice. Of course Triumph dealers discount their bikes, even though it may not be Triumph ‘policy’. Dealers chasing sales do it by various means – better part x price, better model for same price, bag full of extras for ‘free’, or pre-registering whereby you get a ‘second hand’ bike with near-zero miles pre-owned by the dealer – aren’t they all? - (where the £5699 Bonnie came from). Incidentally, on the question of prices over the years, in the late 1990s I bought a new Triumph Daytona T595 for £9,999 and yet the current list price for a Daytona 675 is £8,899 (although, illogically from the description, the old bike did have a bigger but slower engine than the new). Finally, on the looks of the ‘new’ Bullet, IMHO I don’t think the new engine apes the look of the old one in the way the Triumph does its predecessor (or for that matter the way the Kawasaki does). Some on here think my bike looks just like the new Bullet (although I have no idea how they know ). I don’t believe the new models show much family resemblance at all, and that, to me is a mistake.

[STU]

So, Paul, you would price a 125cc 2T scooter at the same price as a 500cc EFI motorbike? I admit to no knowing what you mean by 'in real terms'.
I don't know of any other two manufacturers who you could find pricing at this level. If what you say is true then the £1450 that my brother paid last month for his Taiwanese 125 scooter would also buy him a Taiwanese 500cc motorbike? He would be so lucky - there is absolutely NOTHING on the UK market over 125cc at that price!
Seriously, if you think that the RE EFI is only worth the same as the LML then you are either saying it to get a reaction, or would like a new Bullet EFI but are wishful thinking that they were dirt cheap so that you could have one. Perhaps that's why you say that prices were 'higher than expected'?
As an importer of goods from Europe and Asia I can 100% assure you that the landed cost of goods in the UK is a significant increase on the ex-works price - then add the 20% VAT and other duties.
Do you work for a RE dealer or the previous importer Paul? If so then we will have to go with what you say. If not what makes you so sure that WS actually 'threw in the towel'? And exactly how many dealers 'walked away'?
I suggest that you may be reading between the lines and putting 2+2 together to make 5. Yes, dealers have gone but new ones have come too - but this is true for all bike dealers at the moment, try finding a local Honda dealer for instance and very many Kawasaki dealers seem to also be selling Kymco bikes as well - when they were solus before. Suzuki dealers are reportedly having a very tough time at the moment too - but then I believe that this is the case for most of the brands on the UK bike market.
In fact unless you have the actual figures year-by-year of RE sales then how would you actually know how the market has responded to the new models and how many of those who bought a 350 in 2004 for £1995 have upgraded - or indeed what new customers have bought a 500EFI based on it's more modern features and increased reliability etc?
I suggest that they could be much more of RE's core market than the buyer of the old model who would no way want to upgrade to what he sees as a 'modern' bike - just read some of the previous posts on this subject. How would you know what RE sees as their core market?
What were the sales volumes 10 years ago? What were they say a few years ago before the recession? The EFI were introduced in 2009 - right in the worst part of the recession - can you really equate the two?

Now as far as the new Cafe Racer is concerned were you one of the customers asked how much they would pay for it? I had made it very clear to WS that I would be VERY interested in one of these. I sat on the one at the NEC show last Nov after hours and have been pursuing lines of enquiry - but have I been asked how much I'd pay for one? Nope. So who was it that was asked this question???
Riggers - if you can get a pre reg Bonnie for a discount then you can also do the same with an Enfield - so the difference will STILL be almost the same few thousand pounds. A Bonnie will always be very considerably more expensive than an Enfield - new for new, pre reg for pre reg.
How do you know that RE were struggling to sell their bikes in the UK? What was the target set by the factory vs number achieved?
Finally, if you believe that the (same bore/stroke, pushrod single) EFI Enfields are a 'Double Swirl, Twin Cranked, Overhead Geared Sprindle Bullet Train' that don't show much family resemblence to the old models (and you think that is a mistake!) then you were never in my opinion going to buy one unless it was dirt cheap and RE didn't attempt to sell it for any more than they did 13 years ago! Oh yeah - there has been no inflation, the new engine didn't cost anything to tool up and the rest of the new features cost the same for RE to procure and produce as the ones which were paid for years ago etc etc etc.
On that basis Riggers RE would go bust and NONE of us would have a new one then.
The doom-mongers would then really have a field day then, telling us in their infinite wisdom how the factory got everything wrong and didn't listen to the 'real' customers....

[rog]

Thanks again STU for an input of realism and sanity to this debate. However, changing course slightly, those already owning EFI's less than 2 years old may be wondering about the remainder of their warranty. I've now had an e-mail reply from Watsonian Squire confirming they will honour the warranty until a new importer is appointed.

[Alan R]

Hi guys-------- Good for them, BUT---- how long did it take for that E-mail to materialise ?? They never replied to mine last year, but a phone conversation was not much better either.....It was only when at their open day could I get any proper response to my then enquiry..I'm not trying to put them down etc....just relating my experience as a "customer"...........

[Chevy]

I see people are still comparing prices between the UK and Indian home market models and claiming they are getting ripped off. While I agree the price is higher than I personally would like to see you have to take into account the many changes to the Bullets to meet the European requirements. Silencer, tyres, stainless spokes, paintwork, mirrors, lights etc. Many of these parts have to be sent over to India from Europe and the factory are having to pay western prices. I would like to know the difference in THEIR cost price between Indian made tyres and Avon tyres for instance. These extra costs are before we start looking at EU homologation and all the other costs already mentioned in earlier postings.



I know that while the old model was manufactured, Watsonian were paying more for each bike than I could buy one in India for. I am sure the above will not count for the total difference in prices, but lets stop talking silly low prices for Bullets and be realistic.
Chevy

[Norm]

Who cares, nothing is going to change

[simon]

Pithy thread chaps and excellent reading well done all.

[STU]

Who cares Norm? The 2250 or so viewers of this thread (2nd highest by a large margin) and 47 or so respondants to this thread (highest by a large margin, that's who! A great many people care a great deal who our new UK importer will be. Maybe you are saying you don't care because you are not in the UK, which is fair enough I suppose.
As far as 'nothing is going to change', again you are right - in Australia nothing will be affected by a change in UK distributor! In the UK though we are going to be faced with a number of changes once the new distributor is operating. Hopefully all for the good!

[apparently lucky eddie]

RE will charge as much as they can get away with without hitting sales.
My local dealer stopped selling Enfields after many years of selling the old pre-unit models because he could n't sell them at the increased prices. I paid approximately £2,800 for my new 500 E/S in 2007 which was a fair price at the time. I cannot and will not attempt to justify spending over £4,250 for a new basic UCE machine given the economic and financial situation today. Inflation has not been sufficient to increase the price of a new machine by such an amount and the fact that no-one has the cash now should actually force prices down. I'm not interested that RE have spent millions developing a new engine, its not my problem and I'm not going to pay for it.
So far as I'm concerned RE lost a customer for their single cylinder machine and price was a major deciding factor bearing in mind there is no great increase in reliability nor any great improvement in performance.
I'll wait for the new twin and judge it on its merits and its price tag but it will have to be something very special to persuade me to trade in the 50 year old Triumph that I bought instead of a new Bullet (and which is increasing in value).