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[Duke of Wybourne.]

When I was active on the GoldWing forum, the florescent jacket debate was started. I pointed out that if people can't see a flying effing Wurlitzer then a yellow bib isn't going to help

Talk to truckers, they'll all tell you about idiots pulling out in front of them.
Wearing a reflective vest is only fooling yourself.

I can tell you all about people pulling out in front of trucks. I listened to a radio documentary about hi-viz, and the consensus of opinion was we are at overload to the point it has become invisible. Other opinions were that it gave drivers something to aim at. Which kind of sums up my feeling on the matter based on my rule of thumb, being that if you're going to crash, don't look at where you don't want to end up, because that is where you'll go, and from experience, it has worked.

[Nitrowing]

if you're going to crash, don't look at where you don't want to end up

This is something I learned decades ago from professional racers, "look where you want to go"

[guru]

YEA: dead important "To Be Seen is To Be Safe" the amount of traffic out there you just cant take a chance (you only need be knocked of the once. Best bet is to wear not just a hi-vis vest but a hi-vis jacket with fluorescent strips on the body & arms, especially if you do hand signalling. A thought for you: - A signal which can't be seen, is worse than no signal at all ........... Guru

[Andy C]

My rules of thumb:

1. Never assume anyone has seen you, or your signals, even if riding with lights on and wearing high viz gear.

2. Assume all other road users are morons.

I have had one accident in 40 odd years of riding, partly my fault as I decided to overtake a moron in a car that was going at walking pace, he decided to turn right as I was passing him (without indicating), I should have paid more attention to the fact there was a turning to the right, but you live and learn I guess, and that was a painful way to learn. Broken clavicle, and hairline cracks to my pelvis, luckily no surgery needed. Financially a good result, but I would rather it never hapenned.

[Wheaters]

Yes, be very careful overtaking a slow vehicle because they might be about to do something unexpected. In 1979 my RAF helicopter instructor was killed in exactly that situation. The vehicle he overtook was a farm tractor with a plough on the back. As he went past it suddenly turned right towards a gateway to a field, leaving him nowhere to go. He died at the scene. It was his last ride on a Honda 400 twin I was going to buy from him. IIRC, the tractor driver was later convicted of death by dangerous driving. Ruined the lives of two families.

[stinkwheel]

This is a very informative video explaining why you are invisible. Once you know, you can try to do someing about it.

https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0

One thing people do need to take account of is that even if you have right of way, you will still come off worst. As I said to one young lady recently as I was loading her bike into the back of my van so her husband could run her to A&E to have her broken thumb fixed is "It's no use lying in the road being right.". If you knew he was going to pull out on you, why didn't you stop?

[Andy C]

Stinkwheel - thanks for that video, pretty interesting.

[rattonshaw]

This is a very informative video explaining why you are invisible. Once you know, you can try to do someing about it.

https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0

Saccades is probably not appreciated by most drivers/riders; they're probably not even aware of it. Since I learned of my brain's shortcomings (in this area) during a club talk from a police lecturer, I take just that bit longer to assess a view and/or repeat my visual assessment of what could be about.

The best thing I did some years was an IAM Roadsmart course (in the UK) to get my Green Badge (motorcyclist). You get to learn about safety bubbles, road positioning; all sorts of stuff. I became more confident, progressive and predictive in what other road-users were likely to do. You also become more forgiving of driver's/rider's mistakes because, in most cases, you've anticipated what they were going to do, then planned for it. A lot of your skills you pick up with experience, but you're never too old to learn. There's other courses and classes in the UK such as Bikesafe, ROSPA and commercial enterprises. Cheaper than an exhaust and better results.

My improved riding was demonstrated to me when I did an IAM Enhanced Skills day at Thruxton race circuit on a Kawasaki W650 fitted with TKC80 knobblies. I could out-corner some sports bikes on the bends, though, they'd blow me off on the straights

I also wear a Helite Airvest because my body takes longer to recover at my age should I ever come to grief.

[stinkwheel]

They teach pilots how to actually look where they are going, scanning close, mid and far distance at low, mid and high level. Then back to the start.

And yes, I agree with rattonshaw, the better my observation gets, the less angry I drive. I actively avoid going in the car with my father because he doesn't look ahead very well (he never has) then gets a fright, slams on the brakes then gets angry. Trouble is he then looks round to me to be angry too on his behalf, but I knew the guy was going to pull out half a mile back and would have matched my speed so it never even became an issue. You can't tell them though, I think he'd really benefit from sitting with me as I do a drive with a running commentary but it would only offend him..