Hitchcocks Forum

Not sure if this counts as technical... Well, it can certainly GET technical.



Having built this 612 special, I went to get an agreed value insurance policy on it, because I'm damned if I'll have some insurance assessor offering me 500 bullet book value for it if I'm involved in an accident. That wouldn't even buy a new crank. Having done a detailed breakdown of all the parts and costs it took to build this bike via bikesure/Adrian Flux, they've come back with a valuation of £5500. That doesn't even cover the purchase cost of a donor bike + the parts. Never mind labour, engineering work and finishing (there's £450 worth of candy paint on it).



I wonder if they have gone more towards a "market value" rather than a "replacement value". In fairness, it would cost a lot more to build a bike like this than you'd necessarily sell one for. But surely that's the point of a specialist insurance policy? Top allow me to replace my one-off/rare bike in the case of a total loss.



I was wondering a couple of things:



1) If anyone has any tips/tricks/advice for dealing with agreed value insurance? I'm frankly pretty pissed off with them. I've paid WAY over the odds for an insurance policy that I don't feel covers the replacement value of my bike. I'm actually minded to cancel it I'm so cross so if anyone has tips for another company I could use...(mind you, it's more than 14 days since I took it out. They only just came back to me with the valuation).



2) I have no idea where they got this figure from anyway. It seems plucked out of thin air. I've listed more than £5500 worth of parts, and that's without the many, many hours of labour involved. I wonder if anyone has bought/sold/seen for sale a 612 bullet recently and minds letting me know what it changed hands for? The one I've built is based on a 2003 bullet. It's a ground-up build with powdercoated frame and custom painted bodywork, a hitchcocks 612 kit, alloy mudguards, single seat, close ratio gearbox, aftermarket electronic dynamo/ignition and disc brake conversion (electra fork lowers rather than the bolt-on jobby). Umpteen extras/details (like £150 on LED lighting) but that's the bulk of the major parts.

I think you have discovered that agreed value just means market value at the time of policy inception, but a value which is guaranteed. An agreed value is just meant to cover the cost purchasing an equivalent in the event of a total loss of the insured vehicle.
However as you have found the problem can be determining the true market value – it will almost certainly be less (sometimes a lot less) than the sum of its parts plus the cost of your labour in building it.
Can you find any adverts for sale for a bike with a similar specification? If you can, then the insurance company will usually accept that as evidence. But it sounds as though you may have some difficulty with that.
I have 2 1960’s Continental GT’s on an agreed value policy. I sent photographs of the bikes and copies of sale adverts to the underwriter before I took out the policy and asked if they would accept my valuation. They are normally OK with this approach – I never take out an agreed policy without knowing in advance what they insurance company will accept.
What you might like to consider is taking out further insurance to cover the cost of the salvage in the event of a write off. The cost will be about £15. Then if the worse happens, you get the agreed value (less the excess) plus the salvage returned gratis. So you may be able to get all the parts back. (You have to be careful with this as depending on the write off category you may not be allowed to have the salvage returned).
I went all through this last year when one of my bikes was written off. They wrote the bike off almost immediately (Category N) – the assessor told me that the insurance companies are often writing off bikes if the cost of repairs is just 30% of the agreed value. They just don’t want the hassle of repairing classic or modern bikes with unusual specifications. I received the agreed value and bought the salvage back (I did not have the salvage retention on my policy at that time). I rebuilt it and made a small profit.

Good tip on the salvage, cheers, I'll look into that. I suppose it would take one hell of a smash to destroy the crank and cams which are two of the more expensive bits. A fire would do it though.



I'm pretty sure you are allowed to use anything but the frame in all but the worst category of write-off.

The problem with insurance claims sounds very similar to the problem of selling a heavily upgraded/customised Bullet, even with a superbly done example, you'd be VERY lucky to see your money back. Salvage retention does seem like a wise precaution.



A.

Hi, Its worth getting in touch with "Lynbrook", I've found them to be very help[ful & understanding - they came recommended to me years ago by members of "RealClassic". I had a very modified Triumph T140 (engine bits, clutch, brakes, custom paintwork etc etc)..they insured for what it was worth, i.e not market value (another bog standard t140).. I've stayed with them ever since

I work in insurance, bear in mind an agreed value will still be subject to an excess unless stipulated in the paperwork so would be deducted from any payment made to you (but would be able to be recovered from any third party should (and god forbid) there is an accident where your the non blameworthy party but this would take ages as im finding out currently after a none blameworthy car smash just before xmas and I've still not received my £150 back.

my advice get an engineers report of the work, parts, labour and paint involved as this will have more clout then ring round various insurers that do agreed values to see which one comes out best.

From experience if there is a claim you will still have to fight for the agreed value as they will low ball you to keep costs down in the event of a claim.

It's been so long since I had any dealings with insurance companies I was forgetting what shysters they are (no personal offence intended Super45). So they'll even try dickering over an agreed value policy?



It's highly tempting to just to stick it on the cheapest TPF&T I can get and keep the premium money in my pocket if they're going to play that game. It'll be like the time years ago when an assessor tried to knock £200 off the value of a bike write off because, according to him, the exhaust was rusty. I repeatedly asked him if he was certain he had the correct bike before pointing out it had a full stainless system fitted...

None taken,I've experienced engineers like that before desk pilots mostly that dont know their arse from their elbow, they will play it i can guarantee it as its what we have to do a on a weekly basis ( I do marine cargo/ employers liability and public liability and some minor motor but same rules apply )if there is a saving to be made they will try the offer, for example if one of our guys scratches someones wood floor whilst making a delivery, the home owner might want the whole floor ripping up and replacing but they may actually except a written apology from the business and a £50 voucher where as some wont its all on a case by case basis theirs no one size fits all insurance policy , but what a lot of people dont realize is insurance is only legal bound to put you back to the same position as you were to begin with not to put you in a better position (unless you happen to pay £1300 for your car like I did when its actually worth about £2700 then some arse writes it off so its not all doom and gloom with insurance some times you beat the system.

In my opinion insurance companies inn effect play their own version of a lottery with our money. They make the rules. By law we can't opt out. The ticket price goes up whenever they want. I've had insurance on motor vehicles of one sort or another since 1972 and have never made a claim. Similar situation with house insurance, although obviously that isn't compulsory to date. My advice is ALWAYS shop around at renewal time because all of them will try to rip off the unwary or trusting. Customer loyalty means nothing apart from a chance to rip the loyal customer off for the second term.