Hitchcocks Forum

My '66 Indian Enfield 350 is fitted with a later TLS type wheel/hub. I have a couple of issues which I would appreciate guidance on. Firstly the brake judders a bit when the brake is applied hard and seems to pull slightly to one side. I am about to strip it out to check over for causes which will include fork bush wear and steering head adjustment. Drum ovality will also be checked if I can get my clever friend to help. Is here anything else I should be looking at. For example I noticed that the flanges on the brake plate are a slack fit on the lug on the fork leg. I have now shimmed this but not test ridden the bike since to see if it has helped.



The second problem is potentially more serious and may account for the pulling to one side. The wheel is not central in the fork by perhaps 1/4 to 3/8" at the rim. I understand that something was machined at the hub (I believe this may have been the brake plate lock nut but not absolutely sure) to allow the torque flange on the brake plate to engage more fully in the lug. This may be part of the explanation but somehow I doubt it accounts for it all. It would be helpful to know the thickness of the hexagon head on the lock nut to see how much slimmer mine is.



Subject to inspection, my thoughts are to increase the width of the spacer that fits between the brake plate and bearing to compensate. This will clearly be subject to at least two constraints. One being the effect this may have on the fit of the shoes in the drum (i.e the linings being outside the swept area), the second the overall width of the hub to allow it to fit inside the forks.



Any comments appreciated.



PeterF

So which way is it out? From reading that it's too far over to the right hand side of the bike?



Does it have a speedo drive on the front wheel too or just the TLS hub?



From memory, there are spacers on both sides so centralising it ought to be a case of getting these right. How well does it fit between the fork legs, is it a tight fit or is there a gap?



A picture of what you've got might be handy?



One thing I will say it it's not strictly necessary for both wheels to be a) In the middle of the bike and b) Aligned with one another on the long axis. They do need to be paralell to the long axis and one another. Some bikes were manufactured with offset wheels. The yamaha v-max is a good example, the rear wheel is offset to the right by a good half inch to allow the drive shaft to clear the tyre.

Ok here goes. The wheel is 14mm closer to the LH (brake hub side) than the RH side so needs to shift something like 6-7mm to centralise. The wheel does have a speedo drive and it's a snug fit in the fork ends (see pictures).






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First tiem i have embedded pictures so no guarntee this will work. PeterF

Trouble is, if it's a snug fit between the forks without pulling them in or out, messing with spacers would muck that up. One thing that occurrs to me is that the axle itself is not symmetrical, one end is longer than the other. Is it in the right way round?

Is the wheel the right way around? The speedo drive looks to be on the wrong side.

If the drive were at the wrong side the Speedo would not work.

In fairness, from your picture, the hex head on the brake cover plate nut does look quite a bit thinner than it should (but MK1 eyeball is not a good measuring device) and there is a wee bit of spindle sticking out past the end of the clamp on that sidebut it's not going to make up the whole story. The hex section on that nut is pretty much the same depth as the one on the other side but the one on the brake plate side has an additional domed section between the hex and the brake plate.



Thinking about it, there might still be one with a knackered thread kicking about on my workbench if you want a proper measurement? Part number 140388 should get you a picture of a new one.



I don't think the anti-torque lug is a particularly good fit on my one but it doesn't seem to affect it. Juddering can be an issue if the shoes aren't well matched to the shape of the drum too. Are they pretty new? Sometimes sanding a slightly angled "lead-in" on the leading edge of each shoe can help them cam-on smoothly. You can check how well they are contacting the drum by marking a grid on the shoe in chalk them applying the brake once and seeing where the chalk has rubbed off (or more importantly, where it hasn't).



Is your tyre wearing evenly?

Hi Peter, it is possible your wheel has been built a little off centre. The amount you describe could be sorted by adjusting the spokes. If you want to have a go, let the air out of the tube and starting at the valve [bike supported with front wheel off the ground], slacken all the spokes on the side that is too close to a fork leg by half a turn. next, go to the other side and tighten all the spokes by half a turn. Repeat once or twice and you will probably find that will be enough to sort it. Note - if you have to put more than about 2 turns on the spokes to be tightened, i would take the tyre off and just check no spoke ends are protruding and presenting the danger of puncturing the inner tube, if it is the case, they will need grinding down to make them safe! Regards, Paul.

ISTRC that the rims should be laced and trued with their centres to align with the centres of the hubs, can one of our experts confirm or deny this?



If the spindle and all its fittings are assembled correctly there's not much scope for error, so a poorly built wheel is a distinct possibility. If you get in a mess trying to sort this out, Bullet Whisperer rebuilds wheels as well as engines.



Papasmurf, the speedometer drive on later Indian Bullets goes on the right hand side of the front hub (including disk brake hubs, at least on factory bikes), so that one is in the right place.



A.

Wow, several questions from various responders so I'll try and answer them all in one post to save time.



I think the wheel must be the right way round else the speedo would not work and the brake would be twin trailing shoe. I don't think the spindle is the wrong way round but even if it was I don't see how it would help this particular problem. The nut securing the brake plate is of the correct domed type but does look a little slimmer than the sample in the spares section and does appear to have been machined. The tyre wear is symmetrical.



I stripped out the wheel this afternoon and found that the spacer was not like 142239 (probably a home made jobby) and was too thin such that if you fully tightened the brake plate lock nut it clamped the plate to the hub. I wondered why the nut was loose when I took it off - now I know. Anyway I have made up a thicker spacer which has solved this problem and marginally addressed the original offset problem. I cannot make it any thicker as the wheel only just squeezes into the forks. Slimming down the locknut on the speedo drive side would allow a bit more movement but certainly not enough to get the wheel central.



I think Paul's suggestion of adjusting the spokes is the only option left. I have built wheels before so it should be within my skill set - time will tell!



Writing this I realise that I stupidly reassembled the wheel and did the brake plate locknut up without holding the brake on firmly to centralise the shoes. The wheel will have to come out again (the nut is now so slim I have no spanner thin enough to do it in situ) at which time I can check out the other suggestions regarding juddering. No problems found with fork bush wear or slack steering head bearings.



Many thanks for the various inputs.



PeterF