Forum

[ChrisD]

Hi guys, I have a 1996 Classic 500 but have always hankered after a Redditch one - of which very few ever made it to RSA. I've just been offered one, mostly in bits, not yet complete (in a bike graveyard) and needing lots of cleanup.
It is appparently a 1960's 500 model, put together during the time that 500 parts were made in Redditch and shipped to India where it was assembled.
Did this ever really happen? Was it 500 only? And how do I tell Redditch from Chennai?

I can’t see the crankcase numbers yet beneath all the corrosion (head off, in the rain!), but once I do, should I see the Indian-style numbering (e.g. 6B5 = year, type Bullet, 500) or a different numbering system?

The rear mudguard (I am told it belongs but it is separate from the bike) has a built-in moulding for the rear light instead of a bolt-on, and also a bolt-on rack (presumably with a single seat). I have a few photos which I will place in my photobucket account (ChrisD200).
I'd much appreciate you comments on how to tell them apart!
Thanks
ChrisD

[Mark M]

Chris, there were no 500s after 1961 but some were exported to SA prior to that. The description you gave of vthe parts doesn't narrow it down. To further complicate things the numbers of lndian export models are in a slightly different sequence to Redditch models but if you can post pictures or numbers we can sort it out! REgards, Mark

[Norm]

Mark,
Regardless of the motor if it is a later than 55 Redditch bike I would assume it should have the later frame which is nothing like the Indian frames. Could be wrong anything could and did happen

[Chris Tindal]

Anything did happen, I had a later framed 350 that was sent from the Redditch factory to Madras Motors, something you don't hear of.

[ChrisD]

Thanks for the replies so far. The only way I will get the numbers off the engine is if I buy it and work on it - for which I don't have time right now and I need an answer before I buy it. So I can ignore the engine numbers as a way of helping me decide if it is Redditch made or Chennai made. Unless I make the long journey to look at it again – but then I’ll have to be better prepared. So are there Redditch-engined 500’s in Indian frames? If the frame is not Indian, where would the number be? Right now I have no number for that either – corrosion etc.

Is it true that 500's were manufactured in UK and sent to Chennai to put together up to 1961 (as Mark indicates there were no 500’s after 1961)? If they didn’t send such 500’s to India to build or it is supposedly built after 1961, then I have my answer - its not Redditch made.
Do I understand that any 500 after 1961 MUST be Chennai made?
I have images of many late 50’s to very early 60’s 500’s from our hosts picture gallery and at a cursory glance, I cannot see any systematic differences between the frames. Norm what features are definitive?
Cheers
ChrisD

[Norm]

Hi Chris, front of frame pretty much the same but from the seat back it is nothing like the Indian/early Redditch frames. It flattens out and then rounds down to the swingarm area so the toolboxes are rounded to fit in the frame as opposed to the triangle boxes on the standard Bullets.

[Mark M]

Chris: almost too much to deal with! What I meant was, Redditch 500s were sent to RSA up to 1961 when 500 production ceased, the bike could be one of these, a SA owner called Roy comes on here sometimes and has good info on this. NO 500s were sent to India for assembly at any time after the 1955 deal which set up the Indian company, this is how the Indian Government created the deal. Some 350 parts were still being sent to India from Redditch as late as 1963, but by this time most of the bike was Indian made. If you need visual clues, look at the Parts Books Online on this site, you can see the Redditch frame as a 1951 350 (what an Indian frame looks like,) and the later Redditch frame as used on the Super Meteor in 1959. I chose these examples as not all bikes are illustrated but this will show you the basic differences. Engine and frame numbers are both on the left side of the bike (as you sit on it,) frame number on the steering head and engine number just below the barrel on the crankcase. Finally, the Indian factory did not make any 500s until 1993, so there is a 31 year gap in 500 production! REgards, Mark

[Chris Tindal]

Chris here are my answers to your questions but I'm no expert and may be wrong, plus there seems to be an element of 'no one knows for sure'

1) Redditch engined 500's in Indian frames - no
2) Where would the frame number be? - same as Indian, left side of headstock
3) Where 500's sent to Chennai - no
4) Any 500's made after 61 must be Indian - yes but Indian engines didn't appear till early 90's
5) Frame differences - Norms pointed out the post 55 Redditch frame difference. The pre 56 Redditch frame is very similar to the home produced Indian frame but the main difference is the rear bracing tubes across the top of the gearbox. Redditch ones had curved tubes from the frame to the gearbox downtube and Indian ones have straight tubes and a large bolt across them both. Indian bikes made from kits sent over have the curved tubes. Hope this helps, post a picture then people will be able to tell pretty quickly.

[ChrisD]

MarkM, ChrisT and Norm, many thanks for the guidance. I see what you mean about the frames in our hosts parts Books. In the next day or so I can hopefully restart my photobucket account and post a couple of pictures. The frame is definitely bolted gearbox top mounts, the timing chest has no logo and many of the other bits I can see look Indian. Only now the concern was raised, I can see from an enlargement something I couldn't see in the shed at the time, in the half dark, (thank goodness for digital flash images) the faint trace of an engine number starting with a 6B5 which tells me its a 1996 500cc. So problem solved. Many thanks guys, ChrisD

[Chris Tindal]

Glad we could help Chris