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By Haggis
#94077
If the liner was slapping loud enough for you to hear why have decided to remove 2mm from the liner wall thickness and fit a bigger piston?
Don't be surprised when the bottom half of the liner drops off.
Don't understand how you hydraulic tappets can collapse on a run but then be ok ticking over?
Think its another unique feature to you or your bike.
👍
I do belive you can get solid lifters, can't remember where but I definitely seen them.
By Cranky
#94082
Haggis wrote:If the liner was slapping loud enough for you to hear why have decided to remove 2mm from the liner wall thickness and fit a bigger piston?
Don't be surprised when the bottom half of the liner drops off.
Don't understand how you hydraulic tappets can collapse on a run but then be ok ticking over?
Think its another unique feature to you or your bike.
👍
I do belive you can get solid lifters, can't remember where but I definitely seen them.
Well first thank you for reading. The bigger piston was fitted because I wanted another piston that fit better. Just ordering a new one from Enfield would have put me back to square one. It was a lighter piston from Honda and hade a better skirt.
I did write about using shellac as an o ring to hold the liner in the case. I did explain that the liner to case has a 0.17mm gap. The engine is very quiet when cold.

The tappets will collapse--they are made to otherwise any engine work would result in valves not opening. I think 30 minutes is sufficient. However the RE tappets seem to collapse on a long run of --say 5km.

On my motor they do-- and seem to settle down at idle.

Boy oh boy you not gonna like this--

The lighter piston threw the ballance out quite a bit. Although I have far less forces on the con rod I do have an imbalanced crank shaft. I pondered over this a bit and I welded a piece of metal 2 inches by 1 inch by 1/4 inch on the back of the flywheel at TDC. Quite a lump but the Dia on the flywheel is less that the crank so more was required than the loss of weight of the piston. Miraculously it cured the vibration and dare I say that its better than it was before except I do get a bit at 80KPH.
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By Haggis
#94083
Hydraulic tappets are designed not to collapse.
They will bleed down after a period of time if you hold them under a constant compression pressure.
Or if they have been contaminated with dirty oil, can make the high pressure valve leak and you end up with a very noise tappet.
They can pump up at sustained high revs and hold the valves open, not normally a problem with RE.
When you do top end engine work the tappets will extend to their max length.
This will hold the valves open when everything is bolted back on top.
Let the motor sit at TDC while the lifters bleed down and all will be OK again.
I can only guess that you have one or more bad lifters or a problem with their oil supply.?
Single cylinder crank balance is dark science.
I think a ballance factor of around 60% was suitable for a road going engine.
By Cranky
#94084
Hydraulic tappets are absolutely wonderful and generally work without fault in a perfect world. I--however don't seem to live in a perfect world and have a sloppy one . I don't really Like RE stuff as you will have gathered and their tappet blocks look like steam pile drivers. I am toying with changing them or adopting solids somehow.

Ille be back.
By Cranky
#94092
Thanks for that but I had already read it hence my suggestion that the tappet block looked like a pile driver as did gasshousgorila.

And he went on the say that solids can be quieter than hydraulic and an improvement in many ways. The yanks love there hydraulic lifters but when the word performance is used the first thing out of the window for valve timing control is Hydaulic lifters.

When I was an apprentice in the 60's I was adjusting the tappets on a Rover 90, ubiquitous in those days. It was a side and overhead valve with the sides adjusted through a plate behind the hot exhaust. The foreman made me do them again and again until he could hear them tapping all at the same time like a tap dancing group. He said Tappets are made to tap and they did and sounded nice to be honest. Bonnet shut and driving nothing could be heard.

A valve needs clearance, it must slap onto its seat to clean and cool and most importantly seal. Its must also lift quick and on time. It also needs to lift to its full height of the cam. When you think about it is a hard job to complete all of those with a Hydraulic. A compromise i think and not a good one when you have just the one cylinder.

But have you ever seen a more stupid engine that needs to remove cylinder and piston to get the tappet blocks out. I mean come on. Some one deign the engine in Mumbai and then some one designed the valve train in Chennai? I can believe that, the whole bike was built the same way.

I went to Chennai and bought a 350 new from the showroom , magic black--could I find the factory?
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By Presto
#94174
Royal Enfield balance factors recommended: 350 and 500 singles = 63% - 65%; 250 singles = 63% - 65%; late twins including 750 twin = 75%; 500 Indian Bullet = 75% (Indian factory figure, not recommended).

With the heavy flywheels used in Enfield engines there’s little need to worry about rebalancing the cranks when fitting alternative pistons or over-size pistons or even alternative con-rods. Rebalancing may be advisable if – in the interests of reduced weight – substantial quantities of material are going to be removed from the flywheels.

Adding weight is an unconventional way to balance a crank.
By Cranky
#94182
It is I agree. The alternative would be a major strip down and drill out. This again would be guess work as was welding a lump on the flywheel.

I intended to try it and move it around until it was smooth but first hit seemed to be acceptable. And what is smooth!!! I dont think I would ever make it smooth just acceptable.
By Rattlebattle
#94193
According to an article in Real Classic magazine in March 2018 by Roger Slater, original importer of 350cc Indian Enfields back in the seventies ( and of course more famous for giving the world the Laverda Jota a decade later), the balance factor of the UCE is 58-60% for the C5/B5 (ie engine as stressed member of frame). He wanted to explore why so many Americans ( he now lives in the USA) find the vibration on the UCE models so offputting and to see if he could improve it. He stripped his own C5 down and found (surprise, surprise - not) that his crank was neither balanced correctly within spec nor did the flywheels run true. He therefore set about balancing it to spec and trueing it up. A very useful series of articles, resulting in a transformed bike. He, of course did it in the usual way, drilling holes in brass plugs he fitted to the flywheels until it was in spec.
I have always contended that the owner experience is directly affected by how well his or her bike was put together at the factory. A good one will give no trouble; a bad one is awful.
These bikes were designed primarily for Indian use, where there is a “mechanic” on every corner. They were “developed” to be sold in other markets where top gear is used at speeds above 25mph and petrol conservation is not the prime objective. As such, they were an incremental development of the old iron barrel. It is not a more rational modern design like the Himalayan (to some extent) and the later 650 twin, which very much is. Nor were the early ones built on modern production lines. I have the contemporary sales literature with mine (2015) when they were clearly still hand-built.
IMHO it is a poor design. The oil feed is iffy, relying on an oil seal on a join between outer and inner crankcases. Perhaps that is the issue with the apparent collapse of hydraulic lifters? If there is a leak at the seal the oil won’t flow to the lifters as well as it should. It would worsen as the oil warms up, then recover at tickover. See Harald’s posts.Hydraulic lifters are a silly idea really; why not have adjustable pushrods, especially as there is already an inspection cover. And yes, why on earth can the lifters not be removed through the timing cover? And why, in the late noughties when these were designed, did they not change to spin-on, full-flow oil filters like the rest of the manufacturers? Why did they not consign primary chains to history where they belong. Vertically split cases, really? All for what, the thump of a long-stroke single. Surely that could have been achieved using a modern design while appearing outwardly similar? By contrast, the 650 twin, a bike superior in every way, except perhaps “feel” for those who like thumpers, bears little relationship to the old British RE twins and is a lot better for that, in terms of reliability, easy maintenance, design and reputation. There’s a reason why it has been so successful in Western markets.
For my part I have decided that enough is enough. My C5 will shortly be for sale at a low price, but not on this forum because I want rid of the bike as well as all the accessories, spares and workshop tools I’ve accumulated and I respect the fact that I should not advertise here in competition with our host.
I admire your perseverance, Cranky, not to mention your lateral thinking approach to trying to make a sow’s purse out of a pig’s ear, or something. Me, I shall ride off into the sunset on my new Honda, safe in the knowledge that it’s unlikely to need any sort of major surgery in 6,500 miles, or 65,000 miles if I pamper it like I did my C5...
Will I ever buy another RE, I don’t hear you ask? Not until a new single has been designed by the ex-Triumph team, has been around for a few years and has been found to be as reliable and major fault free as a modern bike should be. Maybe the new Meteor ( did the ex-Triumph designers come up with that name? It’s as inappropriate as some of the Hinckley model names) will turn out to be what it promises. By then we’ll probably all be forced to go electric anyway....
Cheerio

:D
By Cranky
#94200
An Excellent post Rattlebattle, I could not agree more on every point. I bought mine in Oh august I suppose and already it is up for sale. I have had 4 enquirers. Today I reduced the price to 115,000 baht and had another enquiry.

You have obviously been taking note of my posts and the flashing oil light at idle stopped flashing and stayed on constantly. I replaced the oil pressure switch and now it does not come on at all with the engine running and goes out on start up.

For those not paying as much attention the oil light I am talking about is the Mil light (malfunction Indicator lamp) or the ECU unit warning light sometimes known as the engine light that I now use as a engine oil pressure warning light.

I have one tappet block that is not playing the game and at 60kph it comes and goes as if it was turning round in its socket.

You know what I am just sick of it and yet I would buy the interceptor which I rode at the showrooms here. Absolutely chalk and cheese even after a small ride around the car park.

After that little experience the single 500UCE was a dog to ride home on.

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