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By Harald
#90861
Coming back from the garage I have an update for all of you.
I drained the oil and took off the small cover on the engine's underside to get access to the strainer. All looked very good - no metal flakes in the oil, no foreign parts or seal remnants in the strainer and oil filter.
On a Classic 500 Euro IV you have to take off the exhaust system completely as you cannot loosen the footrest and turn it down to get enough clearance to take off the RH engine cover. The problem is the brake pedal for the rear disk brake.
After opening the motor cover my first action was to have a look for the oil pump output O-ring. It was no longer a suitable gasket, but flat and very hard. Probably the oil pump was leaking and the oil pressure was too low to feed the hydraulic lifters and the rockers with sufficient oil. I will replace it tomorrow and will check the backlash of the cam gears and the rocker arms. Afterwards I will install the Carberry plate as the engine is already open.
I am confident to be able to fix the problem.
I am just thinking about the advice of the Aftersales Manager to ride on for the next 1800 km until the 3000 km inspection with a too low oil pressure. Surely not a good idea.
Concerning the warranty, I understood that it will have not much value in my situation as I am tied to the dealer whom I do not trust. For him it is more lucrative to wait with a repair until the warranty is over and the customer has to pay in full for it. What a benefit will bring a dealer and his workshop crew when they are not able or willing to do a good job ? When I am doing the repairs and maintenance myself I know that all is as it should be. So far, I decided today that the warranty has ended.
I will go on tomorrow with the troubleshooting and repair and will update you. Thanks all of you for sharing your thoughts.
#90863
I think you have made the right decision
Do it yourself and you know that it will be done properly

Leave it up to your dealer it may be passed to the sweeper up or their top mechanic you will never know which

To run a engine with low oil pressure for 1800kms is in my opinion stupidity

Good luck with it hope it's an easy fix

Dai
User avatar
By Wheaters
#90864
I agree, low oil pressure will kill the engine.

Many years ago a work colleague of mine bought a new Porsche 924. The oil pressure reading on the gauge seemed too low so he took it back to the dealer. The dealer said it was a faulty gauge and put one on order. He told my colleague it was safe to carry on running in the engine until the gauge arrived and they would get in touch when it did.

A week later the engine was found to be terminally damaged. The oil pump, not the gauge, was faulty.
#90866
Sounds like a good plan. I decided from the outset when I bought mine that I would do the servicing. Under the law a manufacturer cannot void a warranty as long as the work is carried out by a competent mechanic using specified materials and following the schedule. At the time RE were only offering 12 months anyway and I did not trust the dealer. Also, I wanted to monitor what was on the filters, so I could see what was going on. My dealer was happy anyway to support a warranty claim on anything that could not have arisen from work I carried out. I’ve done the same on most of my bikes. I don’t trust dealers unless I have to (BMW).
My dealer didn’t even know about cam backlash, which was supposed to be done at 600 miles. I do wonder whether RE runs training courses for dealers on each model they introduce - I suspect not. This is something they’ll have to address if they’re serious about becoming the global leader in the medium size sector. How can two supposed knowledgeable staff be so ignorant of their own product? I had thought that RE had moved on from the hand-built stage of manufacturing with the Euro IV models. Maybe not.
Anyway, I feel it’s highly likely that you will solve the issue. No doubt you’ll keep us posted.
#90867
I’m not saying it’s an excuse but £4000 for a bullet or £10,000 for a BMW something maybe part of that price is for their marketing and training.
Thanks for mentioning backlash check at 600 miles. I’m guessing if I do a first service myself I can check the backlash at the same time as the oil change.
Great isn’t it, considering buying a new bike and already doing the first service myself! Still, I’ve done it before.
User avatar
By PeteF
#90869
Backlash check at first service??
It doesn't mention it in the owner's manual which includes a maintenance schedule.
So, what would be a suitable mileage to check this? Or just wait for symptoms?
Also, Haynes don't mention having to remove the rockers to check backlash (though I can see that this would make things easier)
Like other owners here, I have decided not to let my dealer near the machine again. He has already proved himself incompetent as well as untruthful. The machine has done 2000mls now and is not going to do a big mileage during the warranty period so I'm willing to take the risk.
#90870
I suspect that the service schedule has changed with the Euro IV models. Without checking (I'll look later) I recall that the backlash check was at a slightly different mileage to the first service, but both were well before 1,000 miles. There used to be discussion on why this was so and most who bothered to have the job done had it done at the first service.
No, neither Haynes nor my RE manual specify removal of the load on the lifters. The fact is that when I checked mine to establish the source of a knocking noise I found no play at all. When I stripped the top-end of the engine and then checked the play before doing a total strip, there was significant play on the inlet cam, the source of some of the noise ( but I also had to replace the timing side main bearing and gearbox sleeve gear bearing). Rebuilding the engine I did the backlash before installing the top end ( which incidentally is the order specified by the RE workshop manual), which I found more useful for setting out the order of dismantling and rebuilding, whereas Haynes has the better description of each removal and replacement process.
I didn't bother doing the cam backlash when new, as there was neither whining (too tight) nor rattling (too loose). The noise suddenly developed after several thousands of miles. I know better now. There is a good YouTube video by an American called bMadd something or other on which the process is described - search Carberry IIRC it's part of that. From past experience I know that Haynes makes mistakes. There are also a few Indian videos if you can stomach them too....
#90871
Right, neither in the handbook nor workshop manual is cam backlash listed in the maintenance schedule. It is mentioned in the text of how to do service checks within the RE w/shop manual. Here it states that after 800km (500m) the backlash should be checked. The first service on my bike was listed at 500km (300m), so this is where the anomaly was and why most who had the job done had it done at the 300m service.
Back then, if you asked the dealer, you got a spare clutch, speedo and throttle cable and a tin of touch-up paint. I believe that has now changed too.
I have also discovered that the cam backlash adjustment probably refers to a check after an engine rebuild, rather than a new engine. I my manual it is included in the section on rear chain adjustment, the rest is in engine rebuild, something I recall commenting on when I got the manual. Anyway, a lot of us thought it needed to be done at the first service.
TBH I’ve never understood why. If the backlash were set correctly at the factory I don’t see why it it change in a few hundred miles, which is why I didn’t bother. The locknuts are pretty tight.
Ideally someone who has bought a new one recently from a respected dealer should ask.
User avatar
By PeteF
#90872
Thanks RB.
I'm not going to bother then unless I get an indication that all is not well.
I will have a look if I have the side cover off for any reason.
#90875
You’re welcome. Despite what it says in the workshop manual I feel disinclined to check mine after 500 miles from the rebuild either. I’ll do it if and when I hear a rattle or a whine. I do wonder about some of the scheduled checks, at least those in the early model manual I have. They schedule replacing the head bearings at some stupidly early mileage. Why? Surely greasing them at appropriate intervals makes sense. Replace when worn out. I suspect the schedules were drawn up for Indian users ie rubbish roads ( oh, hang on a minute), rotten fuel ( erm, ditto) and ignorant users (no comment :D)
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