Forum

[Harald]

Hi, all out there,
I hope you are well and not too much hindered by the global Corona crisis. In the end everything will be fine, and if everything is not yet good, it only means that it is not the end.

My main problem is that my Classic 500 when running and the motor gets warm produces a ticking sound from the valves like when the valve clearance is much too large. Of course, that should not be as there are hydraulic lifters installed to prevent exactly such issues.
The bike is a 2019 BS4 model with a mileage of about 1150 km. As it has a two-year warranty one should not care too much about such problems - you might think.

Well, my dealer does not much care about the problem and states that this ticking sound is quite normal and a sign of normal wear. He is not interested in tracing the problem or to do anything against it at all. Looks like he tries to prevent having work with my bike after earning money with it - a very common problem here in Germany.
When you have a look at youtube you will find many videos about the hydraulic lifters of Royal Enfields - all ending with replacing the hydraulic lifters. It looks like that there is a basic problem with the lifters.
Does someone here have experienced the problem?
I tried to consult another Royal Enfield workshop to get to know their opinion concerning the problem but with no success. When calling them and explain my issue they are not willing to help and sending me back to the dealer where I bought the bike - the one who tries to tell me that all is fine. So I see no way to enforce the warranty claims.
I already contacted the Royal Enfield customer support but did not get any response.
Has some one of you similar experiences with the 500 BS4 motor, dealers and the Royal Enfield Customer Service in particular?
Thanks for your help.

[windmill john]

Hi Harald,

I cannot help, but one of the guys most likely can. My reason for posting is just to say, with the bike under warranty, you cannot expect any other dealer to assist. Could end up with a legal case.... brought by you if the issue is made worse... or no change to the issue.

Also, dare I be so bold, the noise might be normal and if another dealer takes a look and it is no better, you’ll be onto them...

Good luck with your issue anyway.


John

[stinkwheel]

Have you tried contacting the main importers (or even RE Europe) and explaining the problem?

I'd imagine the perception of reliability is a big thing for Royal Enfield. You may get more joy that way. Or at least a second oppinion.

I had a similar problem with an MZ motorbike years ago which had actually blown up the engine during the warranty period. The dealer was making all sorts of excuses ranging from blaming me for thrashing it to there being no parts availability. Basically, he'd sold the bike and wanted nothing more to do with it. When I contacted the main importer they were horrified that an engine had blown and the dealer was instructed to send the engine back to the factory immediately so they could find out what had gone wrong (primary failure of the conrod due to a casting flaw as it turned out). Engine was bench-rebuild by their head engineer.

[Haggis]

Probably just needs the backlash adjusted on the cam gears. Should have been checked at the first service.
Who services your bike?

[stinkwheel]

I'd add that in the UK at least, it would be important to have made your concerns known in writing and kept a record of that communication. The way I always do such things is to send the letter by recorded delivery (signature on delivery) and keep a copy with the delivery receipt attached. I suppose email may do a similar job these days but a well worded physical letter seems somehow harder to ignore.

Then if it turns out there was actually an issue at a later date, you have proof that you brought it to the dealers attention during the warranty period.

[Rattlebattle]

My thoughts are the same as Windmill John's. However, by coincidence I am replacing the hydraulic lifters in my 2015 C5. Having now acquired all the bits I am about to start putting the engine back together. Be aware though that hydraulic lifter issues are not particularly common. I believe my bike was started on Friday afternoon and finished on Monday morning......
Anyway, I dismantled my 5,600 mile engine because I wanted to establish the reason for the increased vibration and engine noise that had gradually worsened over the last 3,000 miles. Although the big end or timing side main bearing were thought to be the most likely suspects, it appears in fact that the issues are that the inlet valve lifter isn't extending fully and the sleeve gear roller bearing is kaput (sorry..). RE appear to have shares in grey silicone and it is possible that a bit has become lodged in the lifter, preventing it opening fully. Also the feed to the lifters is a passageway in the r/h crankcase cover; again, this could get restricted by a bit of silicone. When I was dismantling the top end of the engine I noticed that the inlet valve didn't move as much as the exhaust valve despite having similar if not identical cam profiles. I didn't think any more of it at the time, believing the issue to be elsewhere. Originally there was a little valve noise anyway - even with hydraulic lifters these engines are noisier than, say, an OHC Honda, but they're quiet relative to a Triumph twin...
If you don't want to do this via warranty and you're handy with the spanners I'd remove the rocker covers ( the gaskets are reusable if you're careful) and turn over the engine using the kickstart. You should then be able to see and hear what is going on. You could also remove the r/h outer cover and check the oil passageway is clear, using compressed air.
Really I'd be inclined to find another dealer or someone knowledgeable who can assess whether or not there really is a problem or the noise is within limits. Oh, be sure to put the right oil in. A low viscosity synthetic one like, say, 10/30 will make the engine sound rattly when it warms up . I would have thought it's the right grade but my dealer filled mine with 10/40 on the basis that he uses that everything.....
Good luck

[PeteF]

Probably just needs the backlash adjusted on the cam gears. Should have been checked at the first service.
Who services your bike?

Yeah, how often does that happen I wonder.

[stinkwheel]

Yeah, how often does that happen I wonder.

About as often as they check the tappets and air filter and replace the fork oil when servicing Japanese bikes I'd imagine.

[Harald]

Thanks all of you for sharing your thoughts.
The dealer who now declares that the noise is normal and nothing is wrong made the first service.
I forgot to tell you that the noise suddenly appeared during a 30 trip. I recognized it on the last 5 km as the ticking sound got louder. Therefore, I think it is not normal, as common wear will not create noise suddenly.
Concerning the oil I am sure it is the correct one 15 W 50 as specified by RE. The said dealer filled it in during the first service 600 Km ago. In addition, the oil level is correct, too. With the wrong oil, the noise would not have appeared suddenly.

Getting a second opinion was / is my plan, but for this, you will need someone with RE experience and knowledge. That was my idea to ask a RE dealer or workshop as they should know if the noise is normal or not. However, exactly these people are not willing to give any support and are sending me back to my dealer.

A legal case is not really a solution. If there really is a problem with the motor, I have to proof this fact, hire an expert, pay for the assessment and proof that I did not mistreated the bike or even regularly checked the oil level etc. Therefore, it is not clear at all how such a case will end. May be a court will commit the dealer to make a repair under warranty regulations, but what quality of work would you expect?

I know how to check the play of the valves, but did not open the valve covers until now as it probably could influence the warranty - or at least the dealer could argue in this direction. Finally, I will have no other choice than to do so.

I already contacted RE over their official home page, but did not receive any response. My idea now is to contact the German importer. May be this will help.
I will let you know the results.

Have a good time and stay healthy.

[Haggis]

There is no play to check for on the valves other than there should be none. They are fitted with hydraulic lifters that take care of the clreances. I would still suspect cam backlash, was it checked at the service? Very unlikely as means taking off the engine case. Are there any other RE owners that you can compare engine noises with?