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#88188
Seems our Government will push the zero emissions band-wagon a bit further down the road with the imminent introduction of E10 fuel as the main available fuel.

There are of course strong vested interests in this development – from the producers of bioethanol. Little is said about the production of this fuel and the effect that that has on the environment! It seems that all cars sold in UK since 2011 must be E10 compatible. But not sure if this applies to bikes.

If not compatible then damage may be done to seals, plastics and metals, including fuel tanks, fuel taps, fuel lines and carburettor components. As ethanol deteriorates more quickly than petrol this may create a problem for those of us who only use our bikes (or cars) infrequently.

It has been shown that E10 fuel is less efficient and so more fuel is used to cover the same mileage. This is more acute the smaller the engine capacity. More fuel needed means additional cost and additional emissions!

In 2008 Germany delayed plans to introduce E10 as it was estimated that at that time some 3,000,000 vehicles would not be compatible.

The claim is that the use of E10 will reduce greenhouse gas emissions from ICE vehicles. Which may be why Brazil has increased ethanol content of fuel to 28%. Although I guess there are other ‘forces’ at work in that decision!
#88190
The Amal website has a useful technical note on ethanol. But it dates from before 2012!! Lots of good info. But it points up a bit of an anomaly. 'Ethanol contains oxygen. The replacement of hydrocarbons with oxygen has the effect of weakening the air-to-fuel ratio. This lowers emissions and lowers mpg’. Lower emissions set off by lower mpg. More fuel used in the effort to reduce emissions. It’s pointed out that ethanol absorbs water and becomes acidic which will corrode certain materials. Being heavier than petrol if the water content of ethanol settles out it will sink to the bottom of the tank. Care needs to be taken. Once the water content of ethanol separates out it cannot be assimilated back into the petrol. This could have two effects. Water will lie in the bottom of the tank and rot the base of the tank and would fill the float chamber with water when the tap is turned on. Ethanol also acts as a solvent washing oil from cylinder walls and piston skirts etc. But maybe none of this will matter.
#88195
It's a total PITA for my '91 VFR750. Fuel pump, pre-formed fuel lines, needle valves, fuel-tap all non-ethanol proof.

Would cost an absolute fortune to bring these parts up to spec. I'm already running frost ethomix through it as I'm not confident it'll be happy with the E5 (those fuel lines are unobtainable and not ethanol proof even if they could be found, I'd have to get new ones specially made).

I had one bike (a KLE500) suffer from corroded needle valves which jammed open in use and lead to an airbox fire. Thankfully it self-extinguished. Replaced these with viton tipped ethanol-safe ones but it's a pain in the rear to do on a Jap bike.

Probably not too much of an issue for the majority of enfields. Minimal parts (if any) to replace and they are easy to get at. For standard ones, at worst a fuel tap seal, fuel hose and viton-tipped needle valve.

I wonder what the real-life octane rating is like though. Ethanol actually has quite a high octane rating (but lower energy density) so it tends not to pink but does run leaner. I worry that they may have reduced the quality of the naptha componants in response to this to achieve a 95 octane. Could have fairly serious implications for those of us running more peaky engines in terms of pinking/detonation.
#88272
Population growth – the big problem? Why is Hungary paying its population to increase their family sizes? China scraped its one child per family nonsense. Countries are struggling because of aging populations and declining numbers of younger people. The problems of pollution – greenhouse gases and plastic rubbish – weren’t created by the vast ‘over-populations’ but the greed of growth and the extravagances of ‘the few’.
The question is what advantage is there from increased use of ethanol? It may marginally reduce emission pollution (but with no real impact on the problem) but at what environmental cost and land wastage?
#88274
The recent analysis that I read suggested that switching to E10 in the UK wouldn’t reduce emissions by much taking into account the emissions produced in the manufacture of E10 fuels. In the medium term new processing plants would likely be built, enabling E10 to be manufactured from food waste and other bio materials rather than crops.
I have used higher grade fuel for several years, not for the higher octane but because of the lower ethanol content. With a carb there is no automatic compensation for using fuels with different stoichmetric ratios (air to fuel ratios).

Roughly speaking, petrol burns completely at a ratio of 14.7 parts air to 1 of petrol. Ethanol is something like 9:1. A litre of 5% ethanol fuel will therefore have an AFR that is leaner than a litre of fuel containing 10% ethanol. So if you tune a carb for 5% ethanol fuel it won’t be spot on for 10% ethanol fuel and vice versa, though at these levels the effect is probably negligible. EFI engines are programmed to run at stoichmetric ratio as this is the mixture at which complete burn occurs, hence lowest emissions. Best power is produced with a richer mixture 13:1 or thereabouts, which is why people remap ECUs or fit something like a Booster Plug.
As I understand it there will still be 5% ethanol fuels for the foreseeable future ie super unleaded as now but eventually it’ll no doubt go the way of 4 star.

On the continent they have E85 fuel; bad news if you accidentally fill up with that...
#88275
Rattlebattle says: "switching to E10 in the UK wouldn’t reduce emissions by much taking into account the emissions produced in the manufacture of E10 fuels."

That to me is the key thing in this conversation.
If that is so - and I believe it is - then what's the point and who stands to gain and lose?
Why are these decisions taken with so little questioning and so little public information?
#88277
In my view it’s a simple knee-jerk reaction to be seen to be doing something to reduce greenhouse gasses and hence climate change. It’s the same with electric vehicles; they only ever look at end-use emissions. It’s virtually impossible to get a proper unbiased assessment of the true cost and true impact of these things. To be fair the climate change deniers and Luddites are just as bad.
Has anyone ever seen a proper, validated, unbiased assessment of eg the impact of varying levels of ethanol in fuel? I haven’t. To produce such an analysis one should include assumptions made. These could then be questioned or validated. Also, assumptions should include ranges, so that the likely effects can be more accurately stated as being between x and y. The fact is that there are many variables in proposals such as changing fuel composition, switching to electric etc. All of these should be transparently stated in the analysis, which is what happens in scientific papers that are reviewed by peer groups. Has anyone ever seen a Government proposal that has been properly costed and with real impact assessments rather than just those that demonstrate how the proposal complied with the current pc requirements? I haven’t. It’s opinion and political dogma, not fact.

Rant over.
#88282
Here in USSA Der Fuehrer has commanded that all must PAY. Non-Ethanol proof components will suffer. Energy density (measured in BTU will decline. Real gasoline is about 19000 BTU/LB, Cornohol about 15-17,000 BTU/lb. Fuel injected vehicles will eat fuel pumps (an additive like Marvel Mystery oil or Seafoam will lubricate the pump. The price will increase, and mileage will suffer. The Okeydoke is that we are saving the planet by using MORE FUEL. I'd say firearms are the answer, buit no one seems to use them on the right people over here. Alcohol is Hygroscopic, and will attract WATER I use Star Tron to prevent this. If your engine starts missing and running poorly Suspect Water First. A Hand over the carb is usually effective. Water has a higher surface tension than gas most engines do not produce enough vacuum to pull one drop of water through a jet! The cross drillings in AMAL Carbs are especially susceptible (don't ask me how I know).... The only manual I have ever seen which mentions Alcohol in fuel is the Royal Enfield Interceptor Series 1 manual which states " the area of the jet should increased 1% for every percent of alcohol in the fuel. A 60-80 number drill set will help you here..... Ride On!!

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