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[Wheaters]

Problem is, we all need our cars more than in years gone by because the jobs for many are further afield. No more the "luxury" of being able to walk to and from work, at the factory or the pit for the average worker these days.

My late father never owned a motor vehicle, or even a bicycle, as per many from his generation; he walked everywhere. If and when we did go away on holiday as kids (which wasn't every year), we used public transport, buses or trains. Mind you, his knees gave out and he had to give up work a few years early and he did finally get a vehicle; to remain independent his latter day transport was a 4 wheeled electric buggy.

My daily commute is a 90 mile round trip; I have no real option but to do it because there is no job I'm qualified for any nearer to home (and I've always tried to find one). TBH, I can't wait to retire, I'm sick of motorway queues at both ends of a working day (not to mention the ever increasing numbers of incompetent drivers). Another couple of years - maybe, if I have a pension worth anything.

[Presto]

What puzzles me about the emphasis on electric cars and vehicles is the idea that the components used in the manufacture of these vehicles are ‘sustainable’.

I understand that recharging may be from sustainable/renewable sources of electricity but the idea that steel, aluminium and other components are sustainable is simply not true.

Not to mention the elephant in the room of lithium for batteries. Not only is lithium not sustainable but it is toxic and can be fatal.

[Presto]

Genuine question - I don't know the answer and won't pretend I do - but does anyone know the procedure for decommissioning these huge batteries who's active life is limited to about 10-12 years by all accounts.

[OldBoy67]

Excellent question Presto. The answer (at the moment) appears to be that nobody really knows the definitive answer to that very question. You may find the following article an iteresting read: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable ... -recycling. Read it and weep

[Andy C]

I dont think there is one single or simple solution.

Those in positions of power / influence will never tell us the real truths about vehicle C02 footprints / call it what you will, there are too many vested interests.

Consumerism is without doubt one of the major contributors, as said earlier down the chain we live in a throwaway society / car manufacturers keep encouraging everyone to replace their car every few years, frankly it is all a big mess.

A simple search of the web shows how flawed the arguments for electric cars being the solution is - yet it is something that is conviently ignored by the eco warriors / pressure groups.

Any answer or solution will take years to evolve, simply preventing the sales of IC engine vehicles in 2035 is going to make very little, if any difference.

If all of us on this forum could come back in a hundred years’ time then we might see some substantial change.

Just my opinion.

Just enjoy riding your bikes..............

[Presto]

You'll have seen by now that my gripe is that little if any account is taken of CO2 created from the manufacture of electric vehicles.

The tend to ever larger more sophisticated more powerful more lavish and utterly unnecessary vehicles is itself a concern so far as CO2 emissions are concerned - again I'm thinking of the impact from manufacturing not from use, that's another matter.

Manufacturing has been given a new open order book unlike anything the motor industry has ever known.

Might the total lack of comment from public broadcasters and news media on the environmental harm from vehicle manufacturing be welcomed with open tills by those manufactures??!!

Or am I a mad conspiracy freak??!!

[Wheaters]

As the saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you".

[trophyvase]

Three universities including Newcastle and Leicester have reported on lithium batteries.


Recycling is not straightforward. There is enormous variety in the chemistries, shapes and designs of lithium batteries. These batteries contain cobalt, nickel and manganese. Lithium ion battery waste is already significant. It will grow as demand for EVs increases. Based on 1 million electric cars sold in 2017 it’s calculated 250,000 tonnes or half a million cubic metres of waste will result. Eight gigafactories are needed in the UK by 2040 to service demand for lithium batteries. Electrification of just 2% of global car fleet would represent a line of cars that would circle the Earth, 140 million vehicles. So 100% replacement, the objective, would circle the earth 50 times, 7,000 million vehicles! Landfill isn’t an option. These batteries contain huge amounts of power. We are unprepared to deal with them. Lithium battery fires are also a headache. We need urgent solutions for the whole lifecycle of the battery, from mining the materials to disposing of them again at the end. It is imperative we don’t create another ‘fossil fuel problem’ in the form of battery wastage.

Well there’s a thing! By the way, are cobalt, nickel and manganese sustainable?

[Andy C]

Hence reasons why any real solution to the problem is years away.

I'll be 60 this year and I personally don't think I'll see any real change in the years I have left.

[Presto]

A Royal Enfield related statistic is the CO2 emissions from India – while China emits 9.8 billion tonnes per annum India emits only 2.25 million tonnes per annum, despite their 37 million motorcycles, 250 million cars and 512 million cows, 5 million of which are stays on the streets!!!!!!