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[stinkwheel]

It's for my 2007 12V Ac/DC 350 bullet.


All is not well with the charging system. Following my post about  a funny noise from the alternator with the headlight on, I decided to check the charging system too. This revealked zero output, a steadily flattening battery and a total lack of AC voltage or continuity between the two violet wires coming from the stator.


So. Looks like the stator is scrap.


When I think back on it, I did notice the ammeter reading at an unusually high positive level when I left the rally I was at a couple of weeks back. I put this down to the battery being discharged due to the cold temperature and me charging my mobile phone off it. This makes me wonder if there had been a fault with the regulator leading to overcharging and ultimately burning out of the stator.


I don't want to fit a new stator only to burn it out immediately if the regulator is faulty.


What I do have sitting at home is one of the original (and famously robust) Honda superdream regulator/rectifier units. I know from previous experience that these will happily regulate a 1, 2 or 3 phase 12V charging system on a Japanese bike. Anyone know of a reason why I couldn't use this?


Also, just to confirm. The two violet wires are the charging phases, yellow on red is the voltage output and black is earth right?

[stinkwheel]

Well there's an interesting thing.


If you remove the standard regulator and rectifier, you uncover an extra, unused hole in the frame with a captive nut in it.


The hole centre of which is millimetre perfect for mounting a superdream style reg/rec unit plumb in the middle of the frame strut.


Coincidence?


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/ ... MG0512.jpg


I'll let you all know how this pans out. I'm pretty convinced it'll work, as is a mate of mine whose electronic engineering knowledge extensive. If it works I'll do a howto and put it somewhere.

[Alan R]

Hi there matey -------- regulators can fail internally as  either "open circuit" in which case nothing gets through to the battery at all OR "Short circuit" where the output of the alternator is totally uncontrolled other than by the speed of the crankshaft  rotor. In the first instance the electricity stored in the battery will continue to work the electrica lsystem untill it runs flat. If you are aware of the situation then you do the Enfield version of Apollo 13 ie Shut down ( Don't use ) anything electrical apart from the ignition and ride home staying in top gear and coasting for as long as possible------here's where the Electric-leg boys with their larger capacity batteries have the edge-- but they would have to kick-start though. In the second instance, the first indications usually are the headlight goes much brighter than usual ( not being regulated now) and very shortly after the battery boils dry !! As you also noticed, the ampmeter suddenly shows a massive swing to---- +positive+---- Almost like the opposite to a short cicuit in effect ??  Ask me about my Bullet 65 in darkest central Wales a few years back. Here the opposite now applies---- put as much electrical loading into the system that you can---it will help absorb the excessive current being generated. I put all lights on AND taped the hazard flash-switch in the on position as well.  I got home and immediately ordered a modern power box from our hosts.  BLISS. Please DO keep us informed on tis one----- I run several classic Honda's and have a few spare regulator/rectifiers to hand.  Much cheaper than the £60 or so for a modern one.  Cheers !!

[stinkwheel]

Well that seems to have worked pretty well.


I landed up using a Kawasaki ZX6R reg/rec because I couldn't find the superdream one but they are all pretty much the same thing.


Charging nicely, maintaining about 12.5v at idle with the headlight on, rising to 13.5 when revved. Keeps it up over 13v even when the brake light is applied.


As with any japanese reg/rec, there  are three charging phases. I connected the violet wires to two of them and blanked off the third.


I connected the voltage out wire to the yellow on red.


I connected the earth wire to the black.


This particular one also has a switched-live wire that senses the voltage on the loom so it keeps a better handle on it (quicker response to lights going on and off etc). I used the switched live to the indicator relay. I could also have used the one on the rear brake switch.


I know from experience that Honda ones have a uniform colour code. Yellow = charging phases, red = voltage out, green = earth, black = switched live. They sometimes try to fool you by fitting two reds or two greens. Don't be taken in by it, they go to the same place once they hit the circuit board, treat them as one wire.


The other makes can vary a fair bit so you'd be best to referr to a wiring diagram for the bike it's off.


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/ ... MG0515.jpg


Here's a video of it working dynamically with a voltmeter connected:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnq6DN9RNzU


I may well do a proper howto for this at some point.

[Alan R]

Hi there matey and EXCELLENT work !!!----------------------- Have just watched the video and that seems ok to me. Certainly it's keeping the voltage above battery rating and seems to respond well to changes in electrical loading. I just happen to have the seat off mine at the moment so will take the oppertunity to upgrade. Yes, please do add a more detailed "How to" as I'm sure this is just the sort of practical improvements we all need to know of. Once again---- very well done. Must go----my turn to cook the dinner. PS--- Was that a Highlands or Lowlands accent ?? 

[stinkwheel]

Aberdeenshire doric, tempered by 5 years living in the central belt then 15 years living in Cumbria.

[stinkwheel]

I've put a howto on instructables:


http://www.instructables.com/id/Fit-a-J ... o-a-12v-A/


It can also be downloaded from there as a .PDF file for printing/emailing.

[Norm]

 Stinkwheel,


    Fantastic info that, great work, been trying to work that out for years but when you ask these heavy questions all you seem to get is a lot of mumbling or deathly silence. It is all in my book now, Thanks again

[Gate Keeper]

Hi stinkwheel,


Thanks for posting this, nice piece of unorthodox engineering,
it’s also the sort of thing I’m trying to collect together in one place. To this
end I’ve created a website with a forum where this type of information can be
posted and accessed freely by everyone. Would you please consider being generous
and post a copy on www.rat-bike.co.uk ,I’d
also like to extend this request to anyone on here who has done and written
anything similar.


 


The website is new at the moment and the forum is still in
the testing stage, if anyone have any problems please contact me on gatekeeper(at)rat-bike.co.uk


 


Thanks.


Gate Keeper

[stinkwheel]

I licenced that article as public domain so anyone is free to use the contents and reproduce it anywhere they like.


I was slightly naughty and used someone elses scanning of a Clymer wiring diagram without asking for permission off either of them but other than that the entire content was the product of my own derranged mind.